Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

[AlphaTransWoman]

Good evening,

I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere.

I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not.

The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

But what specifically are the psychological and social aspects to being a woman?

I don't think you can answer that because if you do then you'll find a heck of a lot of women don't conform to them.

But that does not make you a woman.

It makes you a man who is sadly negatively effected by social expectations.

Ironically I think you will find all the women on MN who are GC are desperate to break down these expectations.

In what context? I've already said it's not OK for trans women to share spaces like changing rooms with other women.

Can to define this "vast controversy" ? I don't agree there is one, in fact it seems like something you're bringing upon yourself.

@AlphaTransWoman newsflash for you... a huge number of women "just aren't a temperamental fit" for all the bullshit that's expected of women by society. And that's in the UK. Do you think the women in Iran, Afghanistan, other societies with much more strictly enforced patriarchal sex-based roles are a good temperamental fit for those roles??!

So what facilities do you use?

I am confused

You say you are a trans rights activist

You think there should be third spaces
You think biological male sex offenders should not be in womens prisons
You dont think transwomen should compete against bio women in sport

According to your Tra buddies you are a terf. You are making the same arguments we are. I think it is your side you need to be talking to

You said you will use women's toilets (as a last resort, so thanks for that I guess), but it's impossible for you to use the men's because it would be humiliating.

Are you new to this whole debate or are you just trying to derail, @devondad1 ?

OP you sound like a fairly moderate TRA if you support third spaces and recognise that transwomen should potentially be excluded from some female sports. I assume your ideology is very much at odds with a lot of the TRA discourse online which is very clear that TWAW and therefore anything 'female' applies to them as much as it does to a biological woman.

What you're describing is discomfort with the gender roles society tries to enforce on men. But that does not make you a woman. It makes you a man uncomfortable with the gender roles society tries to enforce on you.

I'm not being facetious. Being a man simply means you are an adult human male. Nothing more, nothing less. You are free to reject masculine gender roles, but that does not entitle you to call yourself a woman and appropriate womanhood.

(Btw I know I'm flinging tons of questions at OP, and not about toilets, but it's meant in an interested way not a 'spanish inquisition' way, partly because this is an AMA and partly because these specific questions I ask are never answered. I hope OP is courteous enough to offer their opinion!)

@forgotmyusername1 we have almost identically cross posted!

What I can't do is share facilities with men. As a woman, it would be profoundly humiliating for me to do so and put me at risk of assault.

I'm interested in both assumptions here, @AlphaTransWoman. Are you saying there's something inherently humiliating about being a woman or about "living as a woman"?

If I have to use a Gents' or unisex facility, I don't feel ashamed. Apologetic, yes, for muscling in on their space, but not humiliated. How does this differ for you?

Regarding assault, you would actually stand a better chance of defending yourself against an attacking man than a woman would - yet we're frequently told by your fellow advocates that men attack women all the time, so it doesn't matter if males come into the Ladies' specifically to attack us.

And it should be stressed that no 'transwoman' has, to the best of my knowledge, been assaulted by men in a Gents'.

My gender-bending mates back in the '80s used the sex-appropriate facilities, sometimes drawing a bit of banter but no aggression. One of them was Peter Robinson (then known as Marilyn). He certainly attracted attention and did get beaten up a few times, regrettably, but never in a loo.

Well, you don't want to be 'humiliated' by having to use the men's. So if you have to, will use facilities provided for women. What makes you think it's ok for you to share these spaces with women, who see you as a man?

If you have any understanding of what it is to be a woman, you would not enter. Will you enter?

Some people just aren't a temperamental fit to the gendered roles associated with the bodies they were born in. Of that group, some can compromise and live gender non conforming lives. For others, living in the "wrong" gender is unbearable. I know because I am one of those people. I couldn't be myself living as a "man".

What is a temperamental fit to the gendered roles associated with the body of a woman, please?

Additionally, if you're willing:

What is the gendered role of a woman?

Good luck!

How much support is there amongst the TRAs for third spaces? We are under the impression there is very little, but it is the preferred solution for many GCs.

As a follow-up, if you believe this is a popular solution, would it be fair to say that it's being ignored when we suggest it as women because as women our opinions, thoughts and feelings don't matter to anyone born with a penis, but would be listened to if a transwoman suggested it?

As another follow up, if this is a popular solution, who is stopping it from happening when it would make most people happy? Because it's not us, most of us want this.

For others, living in the "wrong" gender is unbearable. I know because I am one of those people. I couldn't be myself living as a "man".
But what does "living as a woman" actually entail for you, beyond wearing women's clothes and using women's facilities?
Literally in what way do you live life as a woman when you were born a man?

I have a horrible feeling you're going to say by forcing people to use the pronouns not in line with your sex 🤔

What are the "last resort" circumstances in which you reluctantly use women's facilities? Is it that you have tried looking for the men's but can't find them? Is it that you are just really desperate for the loo and don't want to think about it? Is it that the men's has a really long queue? Is it that your outfit is particularly swishy today? I can't think what circumstances mean you are forced into the ladies as a last resort.

OK another question….

Do you think it is OK for a transwomen to change in a women’s changing facilities at a swimming pool when teenage girls are changing? There is no ‘third space’ that is not an option. The only alternative option is that the girls go into a big group changing room that is off the woman’s changing room.

If this is ok why?

If not why not?

I genuinely am not being goading, I am trying to get my head around the differing views.

I believe that gender identity should be a human right and we should not be policing who is and who is not allowed to call themselves a "woman".

This is a bold statement.

You are saying that woman has no definition, and can be applied to anyone on their demand.

How would government make policies around womans rights?

Do you believe that toilets should be segregated by sex, gender identity, or by something else (if so please expand)?

Not being goady but why is it humiliating for you to use the mens toilets? You describe yourself as gender non conforming , this doesn’t make you a woman, it simply makes you a man who rejects current societal norms of being a man? It comes across as incredibly self centred to make others uncomfortable because you can’t deal with your own dissatisfaction.

OK I'm getting a few questions about this.

I'm not in favour of any form of medical transition for kids, including puberty blockers.

This is kind of agonising for me, because going through male puberty in itself caused irreversible damage to my body. I look, and feel, ugly and unfeminine for reasons I now can't do anything about.

But I don't think that children can consent to treatment that is, or may be, irreversible, particularly if it makes them sterile. You can't give kids permission to take such a dramatic decision they might come to regret bitterly later.

So although I personally may have massively benefited from medical transition during adolescence, I can't say it is ever the right thing to do.