Hello, I'm a TRA - ask me anything

[AlphaTransWoman]

Good evening,

I'm a transgender rights advocate. I say "advocate" rather than "activist" because I believe in constructive debate and consensus building rather than the hostile, shouty kind of activism that gets us nowhere.

I am here because I am genuinely interested in seeing if there is some kind of compromise that can be reached between pro trans and gender critical views. Obviously this is difficult because we may disagree about something pretty fundamental. I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense), so there's an obvious divide if you do not.

The question is, can we find ways to co-exist and find an acceptable way forward on some of the difficult issues that arise around trans acceptance? So I'm happy to have a go answering anything you care to ask in good faith. Who knows, we might even make some progress.

Oh, forgot my question for you! Do you have a penis?

Why do you feel you need to be a woman, rather than a man with a feminine social presentation?

Wouldn’t it be better to break down stereotypes and barriers around how men and women are “supposed to” present, so that you can present how you wish no matter what your biological sex, rather than changing the definition of woman/man to be based on feelings rather than biology?

I feel passionately that trans women are women (at least in the psychological and social sense)

Now it’s this utter bollocks that gets me every time.

It’s the first thing that made me come looking on mumsnet for other women that felt the same, and ultimately made me staunchly GC.

It’s just so fucking offensive and regressive. And I’ll bet my arsehole that the OP won’t ever answer the people asking what these ‘psychological and social’ traits are that only women have, but men don’t.

Because the only sane answer is that there are NONE.

There is no psychological trait, quirk of fashion or personality that means if you have it then you must be a particular sex (and it ‘sex’ let’s face it. The term ‘transsexual’ was bang on the money. If the mythical ‘gender’ is completely separate to sex then why the need at all for puberty blockers and surgery to alter sex characteristics?)

I thought we left this whole ‘ooohhh that’s a masculine trait’ and ‘yeah that’s just such feminine behaviour’ back in the 50’s where it fucking belonged.

As a woman, my lived experience includes monthly menstruation for decades, contraception (again for decades) to avoid getting pregnant. Being pregnant. Abortion. Miscarrying. Giving birth. Tearing my perineum with no pain-killers in the process. Breastfeeding. The pay gap. Risking sexual assault from people (men) physically stronger than me.

How have these things impacted on your life, as a ‘woman’, @AlphaTransWoman ?

I agree that some people truly feel they are born in the wrong bodies, even before factors like social contagion. However, I'm curious why you think it's so great to be a woman? What exactly appeals? Have you ever given a thought to the negative things that come from being born a woman, and could you even list a few? Or do you think it's all lipstick and sparkles?

@AlphaTransWoman

why would it be humiliating for you to use the mens toilets? You were born make, (without being personal) presumably still have male anatomy & the mens fo have cubicals.

but you don't want to feel humiliated (?!?!) so it's ok to invade the space of woman & girls? Some who might feel very intimidated by your presence?!?!

What is a woman in your definition?

Like others, I'd like you to answer the question, "what is a psychological and/or social a woman," please.

What I can't do is share facilities with men. As a woman, it would be profoundly humiliating for me to do so and put me at risk of assault. So if you are supportive of the idea of third spaces we are probably on the same side.

I have bladder urgency - caused by being a perimenopausal woman. It's severe enough that I qualify to be able to use disabled toilets, and severe enough that I wet myself - not just a bit - if I can't get to the loo in time.

There are only a certain number of women's toilets. There are even less disabled loos. Trans men tend to still use women's loos or maybe the disabled loo because they feel unsafe in the men's. This means more people trying to use the ladies (which often has a queue at the best of times) and the disabled, than if they were as previously strictly sex and disability segregated.

So, my second question to you is: Where does my dignity, as a disabled woman, rank in comparison to yours?

Because if you are in the only cubicle when I get to the loo, you're likely sentencing me and the 1 in 3 women over 40 who have bladder problems, to pissing ourselves.

It's clear that OP is fine with other people being humiliated

I am also in favour of third spaces, OP.

What I can't do is share facilities with men. As a woman, it would be profoundly humiliating for me to do so and put me at risk of assault. So if you are supportive of the idea of third spaces we are probably on the same side.

You can share facilities with men, as you are a man. You have said you are a transwoman, then said as a woman.... Think about this. You see yourself as a woman 'psychologically and socially'? Ask yourself first, what does that mean?

To WOMEN, when you walk into their facilities they see a man. Can't help it. If you have any bond with women at all, don't do it. Just don't do it.

If you are really in favour of third spaces, as women are, please lobby for them.

that must be pretty rare, surely?

This, OP. You can't have read much of gc mumsnet if you think third spaces are controversial here.

I believe that gender identity should be a human right and we should not be policing who is and who is not allowed to call themselves a "woman".

I don't understand this. You want people to have a right that is literally unenforceable, because it can't be defined? What specifically do you mean by 'gender identity should be a human right' - what would "breaching" this look like? Can you give a concrete example?

If I said I want people's personality "to be a human right" - what would that mean?

Truly, I do not understand why you have done this to yourself. You are brave and tbh I don’t think you’re going to get much good faith. Ok my questions.

1. Could you explain the common reasoning behind the refusal of some transpeople to use third spaces? I’ve tried to understand this point of view by comparing it with segregation and any fears ascribing inherent criminality to a characteristic but the nature of sex based crime means I don’t find these arguments convincing.

2. Do you think that there is a sufficient level of support available for transgender children and their families? What would a thorough care plan look like to you if money wasn’t a problem?

3. Do you think more should be done to preserve the relationship between transgender individuals and their families? If so what would that look like?

I realise that it is a huge emotional burden to maintain a relationship with somebody who does not understand your struggles. I don’t mean to dismiss that, but anecdotally I know someone who eschewed a relationship with her family and all attempts at mediation, going through massive financial difficulty and unsavoury situations instead. They have now reconciled. From an outside perspective, it just seems like this is often encouraged, even when there might be a more consolatory path to mutual (if not understanding) acceptance.

You think?

Good evening Alpha, thank-you for posting on here.

I'm certainly in favour of 3rd (or 4th) spaces for trans people.

As others have said I'd love to know what you mean by transwomen being women in a psychological and social sense? I have known 3 transwomen very well and met many more in my life but don't think any acted or behaved like women, although they all thought they did. Everything about them from what the talked about, their dress, their mannerisms, their body language, their smell was masculine. They also all thought they passed well but none did.

We are very much in favour of third spaces. The issue is that a lot of trans people don't find it validating

E.g swimmer Ann who tried to get a receptionist at a spa 'reprogrammed' for giving her the key to the gender neutral changing room rather than the ladies (the same Ann who a couple of days later went for a gentle stroll through the girls single room changing room where a large groyo of teenage girls were in a state of undress despite there being no reason for them to be walking through a swimming pool changing room

Last week a mixed gender swimming race was cancelled as there was no participants. They only want to enter the womens races

Or the trans woman with a beard who took a spa to court for not allowing them access to 'the naked lady spa' (their description)

Or the lesbian trans women who can't accept that female bodied lesbians dont want lady dick and campaign for lesbian spaces and events to be shut down as a hate group. They offered to host a trans date night but they didn't want that - they wanted in on the lesbian one (unfortunately the individual in the pvc outfit with a massive erection made the lesbians uncomfortable)

A lot of trans women only accept total validation by women and anything less (e.g gender neutral spaces, sports, dating apps) is not what they want. Most gender critical women do not hate trans people. We accept trans people exist, we accept they need protection, we accept they need to be treated with dignity and respect and can dress however they want. What we don't accept is that wearing a dress magically turns you into a biological female. You are a transwoman, not an actual woman and that is biological reality.

Uh, I have seen this online (without looking for it) enough to think it is not as rare as it should be

I know we're all playing into OPs hands because they're not even responding, but the idea of a "social" woman as opposed to a biological woman really annoys me. It defines women by others observing and defining them, which removes their agency and personhood. Why should we only exist if a bunch of men say we do...

That actually makes no sense.

You think everyone should everyone should be able to self identify their own sex (women’s spaces are based on sex) and treated as the sex they say they are. You believe this is a human right.

Ignoring the fact that you can’t change sex, for a minute. If it’s Human right, you can’t then say it’s not applicable to prisoners.

So you do believe that it’s not a human right and there are times that trans women shouldn’t be included with women. Which means not everybody would have the right to identify and be treated as the sex they want choose.

and on top of that, you don’t want to share spaces with people who are biologically male. But have have decided women who don’t want to share spaces with biological males shouldn’t have that choice.

am I understanding correctly?

Why do most transwomen keep their male genitalia?

That anyone is sticking a stranger's used tampons up their ass?

Yes. Or is that common practice where you live @StarlightLime?

OK I'll do my best with this one, but it's not easy.

We live in a highly gendered society where men and women are still, to a great extent, expected to dress and act in different ways. Avoiding the vast controversy whether this is a good or bad thing, it is the way things are at this point in history and we have to somehow navigate this as individuals.

Some people just aren't a temperamental fit to the gendered roles associated with the bodies they were born in. Of that group, some can compromise and live gender non conforming lives. For others, living in the "wrong" gender is unbearable. I know because I am one of those people. I couldn't be myself living as a "man".

So the question is whether such people can be accommodated in society and allowed to live in their chosen gender and treated as such. I think it is possible, accepting that there has to be some compromise around things like single sex sports and spaces.

I have known 3 transwomen very well and met many more in my life but don't think any acted or behaved like women, although they all thought they did. Everything about them from what the talked about, their dress, their mannerisms, their body language, their smell was masculine.

Women can be masculine. Feminity or masculinity in a cultural sense have nothing to do with determining what sex you are.

OP, when you say 'woman in a psychological and social sense' are you, broadly, talking about cultural/social femininity? Is that a good word to sum up what you mean by 'woman' in your eyes?

Some people just aren't a temperamental fit to the gendered roles associated with the bodies they were born in.

So rather than say 'the labels are wrong', you say 'our bodies are wrong'.

Is that a fair summary?