Munroe Bergdorf 'What Makes a Woman' Channel 4 16/5

[R0wantrees]

Extract from Radio Times:
www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2018-05-16/what-makes-a-woman-review-munroe-bergdorf-transgender-activist-debate/

"There are more moments of vulnerability when Bergdorf attends a discussion by a feminist group called We Need To Talk. There’s a real sense of menace in the air as transgender people gather outside to protest the meeting of so-called TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space.

Bergdorf is extremely articulate in one to one interviews so it’s a shame she doesn’t feel able to stay and debate them, but it’s also understandable – the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic and she’s surrounded on all sides.

“When we [see] events like this, which directly are designed to deny [transgender women’s] very identities and the fact that we even exist, it’s extremely hurtful and concerning,” she says as she leaves. But she later sits down with one of the organisers, Venice Allan (aka Dr Radfem, just in case you were in any doubt).

They have an interesting debate about female and transgender rights, but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Concludes:
What Makes a Woman provides a valuable grounding in the ins and outs of the transgender debate for those of us who could use it – but it’s also a profile of a intriguing, sensitive, likeable person who is herself still on a journey of discovery."

What Makes a Woman is on tonight, Wednesday 16th May, at 10pm on Channel 4 and available afterwards on All4

Will I be deleted for saying 'Bollocks'?

“feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality....

Another man telling women we're doing feminism wrong ffs

Feminism is about women.

feminism is [not about women?] about equality

This was what Ash Sarkar said during the GenderQuake debate... when did this happen?

Feminisim isn't the same as equality it is about women and girls rights. Women don't have to accept trans women into their spaces our rights as bilogical women are being minimised as if we don't matter.

I find this so offensive.

It’s like Rachael Dolezal making a program about what it’s like to be black.

TERFS – Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists – who believe trans women are not female but are in fact men threatening to infiltrate women’s space

Christ that's loaded language. Terfs simply don't believe men can be women and women can be men which is like, normal thinking. Name calling "terf" is total demonisation in action.

Also, feminism is about women. Marxism is about equality. Why should feminists do all the work for all the world's equality equality?

When is the follow up show 'What makes a man' going to be shown?

"the atmosphere inside the meeting is toxic"

No. That was outside the meeting.

My partner asked me last night if he wanted me to record it...I told I think he already knows what it takes to make a women, and it's not a penis! (He found that funny)

We don't deny that they exist, we know that transwomen exist and we have no objection to that. We also don't deny transwomen's identity, they're living as women and that's fine too. The issue is that they want us to believe that they are actually female and that their male bodies are female...some even say that they are more female than born women because they have gone through the process of transitioning. That transitioning may amount to nothing more than a name change.

Well I can answer MB's title question very easily 'What makes a woman?' - 'Not a biological male'.

There, can we go back to reality now?

Link to recording from the 'We Need to Talk' meeting referred to:
www.facebook.com/TheJamJarBristol/videos/793672257494647/

Was looking for a thread on this. Out to get a bottle of wine now as think I'll need it to be able to bear this without throwing something at the TV! Just the title of this show is bloody offensive, what makes a woman?? Apparently it's tons of plastic surgery, fake boobs, makeup and heels.

Actually, no it's not.

"but it ends tellingly with the good Dr declaring “feminism is about women!” when surely feminism is about equality...."
This is about the one correct statement in that review -- yes, it is very telling when we see folks thinking feminism is about equality, rather than our sex-based oppression.

Damn, but feminists are unpopular at the moment (well, the uncomfortable cunty sort that is!). We must be doing something right, I'm always suspicious when we're not unpopular, usually means someone is up to no good................

Feminism is about women

So is the female supremacist movement.

And?

I don't think I could watch without rage stroking.

Likeable is not an adjective I'd apply to this homophobic misogynist

Toxic atmosphere inside the meeting? Bollocks. The whole thing is on video, anyone can watch it. It was not toxic.

This is the thread with video and discussion of what happened outside the 'We Need to Talk' meeting in Bristol with footage of the protesters who blocked the stairs when speakers arrived:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228346-Everyone-should-see-this-IMPORTANT

The atmosphere in that room was anything but toxic, you can tell that from the video. What on earth is toxic about robust debate?

What makes a woman.

An X sperm, an ova, and approx 18 years and 9 months.

They have adopted the position that women's rights are anti trans without coming right out and saying so.
Hard to believe anyone could present a show ostensibly about women in 2018 without knowing that Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women, and instead adopt the backlash position that feminism is an equality movement for men who identify as women.
Propaganda promoting misogyny was a bad call here, I think. Time will tell.

Jeni Harvey's article ( speaker at 'We Need to Talk' Jam Jar Bristol)

medium.com/@GappyTales/what-makes-a-woman-1f61f80901dc
(extract)

"It was a room filled with women and men of many different viewpoints: those questioning the current narratives around gender are in no way a homogenous group, and still more are undecided and unsure. But at the back of the room, sure as anything, perched camera ready and cross legged on a stool, was a famous person I recognised.

Munroe Bergdorf, a model and transactivist, had arrived in the midst of the preceding chaos, complete with film crew, and was now attempting for the second time, hand waving in the air, to disrupt proceedings by shouting over a speaker. In response, a reminder — a repetition of that which had previously been stated: that all opinions were welcome, but that before we could question what they had to say, speakers first needed to be heard without interruption

And so here begins the argument.

There can be no civil discourse with those known to be critical of trans ideology because the existence of trans people is not up for debate. This is now a well worn line, the second half of which is, of course, perfectly accurate. The existence of trans people is not up for debate. After all, it is not possible to debate a non-existent person. No one has ever felt threatened by an empty changing room, and women are not being beaten in their sporting events by nobody. Such passionate feeling could never come about over thin air. Human beings that identify as trans exist, just as I and you exist. The questioning of a belief that male people are female people simply because they claim so, does not constitute a denial of anyones existence. Neither is it a denial of their entitlement to exactly the same human rights as everyone else. There is no human right to use spaces reserved for those born female, if you are biologically male, however, and what women are asking for is a debate around potential changes to the law, and the aggressive attempts to reshape social norms, that will affect their actual rights and status as a protected group based on biological sex.." continues

I don't find anyone self image obsessed interesting, so wouldn't really ever take much notice of this preening numpty.

Why is this particular numpty given so much air time? Is it the sheer ridiculousness?