Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

[TheXXFactor]

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

Maybe we could rename the changing rooms: ‘people with penises’ and ‘people without penises’. Imagine the signage.

@UnimaginativeUsername Women have been reduced by the TRA to 'uterus bearers' but nothing will be held in the same regard for men.

I do actually think that women who can't cope with seeing a willy are a bit silly

For many it's not about the willy itself, but the mentality and intent of the man it's attached to - and if in these circumstances that intent is sexual titillation, other issues arise around safety

So long as ... willy owning self identifying women (?) are treated just as severely as anyone else who misbehaves I don't see a problem

And given the ceaseless allowances being made, do you really think that's likely?

I go to 3 different pools, the 2 bigger ones have mixed changing with individual cubical for dressing in, the showers are individual too but people tend to keep swimwear on whilst showering. I don’t see the need for people to strip off and shower at a pool anyway, have a quick was off in your costume and then have a proper shower when you get home. I have never seen anyone naked on show at the pool. Most people are quite conscious of their body’s in this country so rarely parade around public showers naked. There doesn’t need to be male, female or trans showers, just keep them all individual and private so no one has to get there private parts out.

And for those saying they don’t want male perverts looking at their girls, females can be paedophiles too you know. I wouldn’t let my teenage daughters strip off at a pool infront of anyone.

I can see "changing villages" meet some needs, I personally hate them, and my DD would often come home from school swimming telling me about boys banging on girls' doors or throwing underwear and other clothing into girls' cubicles instead of being able to get changed in peace.

In my local pool, the changing and showers are mixed sex, people showering in their bathing costumes. There are different sized cubicles for private changing. I think it would be frowned upon if people showered and walked around naked.

What I don't understand is why there seem to be a growing number of people who identify as the opposite sex but still want to keep their original man or lady bits. Is it more a confusion about sexuality? I think I only know one transgender person and they have gone through hormone treatment to change their outward appearance but they still want to keep their original female sexual organs. Imo she's still a woman, just a very confused one. From what I've understood, research into this area is extremely limited at the moment.

Where are all these pools with naked people of one gender/sex whatever showing together? I’ve honestly never seen this anywhere.

Most of the swimming pools in Sheffield have this. The larger also have a communal (suits on) shower/changing village, as well as single sex changing. The Victorian ones only have single sex showers/changing.

Personally I am happy for a fully transitioned transperson without a penis to be called a woman and to use the women’s changing rooms. I am not at all happy about a transperson with a penis to self identify as a woman absvthus take their penis into lots of places only women have access to and feel safe in.

I feel the same @SleepFreeZone. When a man has endured the steps to live life as a woman and has a certificate to state gender reassignment, they are women.

Men with feelings? Men.

Gussy

"Our pool has a general area for showers when you get out."

Ah sorry. So you're ok. The rest of us didn't know that. OK then everyone it's ok, panic over, Gussy is fine

Brown it’s not often a case of them wanting to keep there male/female bits, it’s huge surgery to have and it’s not easy to get the op on NHS, there are not many hospitals that offer surgery to change from female to male as it’s complectated surgery, I’m sure a lot of trans people would love to have the surgery but it comes with a lot of risks and loss of sexual sensation.

I have seen one public pool with mixed showers/cubicles.

I don't get it. If you have to shower in your swimming costume, are you really clean?! Personally I prefer a proper shower and to rinse my costume out properly there and then, not to leave a chlorine filled costume on...

But maybe it's a more efficient use of space to have it all mixed?

I am just wondering what peoples views are on a transgender woman (a man) who has had top and bottom surgery to appear as a woman. Should they be allowed to shower with girls and women?

I think we are probably already sharing spaces with these people.

I suspect that these people are no threat to our safety and have struggled for many years and undergone painful and intensive surgery to acheive the opposite sex body and, whilst I would still not consider them to be a woman, I would treat them with consideration and respect, as I would anyone.

But these are not the people we are talking about. These are not the people who pose a threat to our safety. More than that, they are as much of a target to the TRAs as women are (being called TruScum).

But then what hope have we got to get this nonsense of self identifying stopped if so many, so called, educated women posting on a forum can’t see past the end of their own noses. It Does Not Matter what your local gym/swimming pool is like, what matters is that any MAN can ‘self identify’ to enter ANY space he wishes to.

Any perverted twat can ‘self identify’ and use previously female (yes, you know, the ones born without a penis) safe spaces.

....and usernamealreadytaken has it spot on with the difference between self identifying men in women’s spaces and communal changing areas.

Plus, we shouldn’t have to make everything communal either. Why the actual fuck should we have to lose our female only facilities so that men have access? It’s fucking madness.

@OutyMcOutface I think it's very subjective. Rape has left me with a total loathing of Adam's apples, I can not look at them without feeling revulsion and panic. Penises I think are rather ugly, pathetic things and if waved about, more laughable than fear inducing. However I've met enough women in support groups to know I'm a bit weird and that most women with similar experiences dislike penises.

I do think however if the rules state that trans women should be dressed appropriately for women swimmers, whether pre op or not then the same rules need to apply to trans men, i.e. dressed appropriately like male swimmers and I can't think of a time where I've seen a man cover his chest up to get in the pool.

BrownLiverSpot I can understand why an adult male might want to be seen as a female and yet keep their original genitalia. Sex realignment surgery doesn’t have a brilliant outcome for many. It is extremely expensive and as I said, has huge risk.

Why bother getting it lopped off if you can just put on a dress and lipstick and call yourself Sheila and still gain access to women’s spaces and any other perks you think exist as a woman (personally I can think of none but you know, what do I know).

Everyone deserves respect, including meek mild middle aged women who may not feel comfortable sharing a changing room with men.

I gave up using my local pool (no cubicles just a room for women and one for men) when there was a small group of veiled Middle Eastern women accompanying a couple of boys aged around 12-14 who were clearly oogling women in the changing room. I suggested to one of the women that the boys should really be in the men's changing room. Her counter was that British women had no shame. She knew as she watched East Enders. I mentioned the incident to reception staff but suspect it was a regular issue and they felt they could not do anything.

It was all very British. I did not make a fuss, and simply stopped swimming. I assume many women who feel uncomfortable about sharing a space with a pre-op transgender may do the same. A small but steady encroachment on ordinary women's rights and freedoms. I worry for the next generation. Have we failed them by not insisting that all women deserve respect and consideration.

The bit about TIFs keeping their chests covered says everything about the priorities (y chromosomed people, as per usual) of this agenda.

There our family showers at ours.

What would a single dad do who has a little girl, if there wasn't?

Lovemusic33

Partly true. But unfortunately there are a new group of vocal TRAs who actually declare their penises are female, that they don't have to have an operation to 'become a woman', they simply already are regardless of their male anatomy because that is how they feel.

NaturalWoman 13:29. I completely agree with you.

MonaTheMoaner Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:45
The issue is not that a small percentage of the population that are trans can use this but since all you have to do as a man to be trans in these rules is say "I'm a woman", it opens the door for any men to use the sevices regardless of surgery/hormones or presenting as a woman.

The paedo's must be rubbing their hands in glee.

This is madness, utter madness. A man should be able to dress as he likes, have relationships with whom he likes (as long as adult and consensual), act as “feminine” as he likes, and suffer no discrimination, harassment or ridicule for it, but if he has a penis, he is a MAN, full-stop, end of story.