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AIBU?

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Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

488 replies

TheXXFactor · 06/02/2018 12:15

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

OP posts:
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niceandtoasty · 08/02/2018 23:57

“You don’t get to be uncomfortable. It’s not about you. This is an act of hate.” --WHAT? Having a spa for women is an act of hate?!

It goes from women's feelings are unimportant, to you're not allowed to express your feelings, to now being told you are not allowed to even feel uncomfortable.

I used to look at Canada and shake my head at the craziness but, unfortunately, it has well and truly taken hold here as well. Sad

No1IronGirderRS · 09/02/2018 00:33

Thanks OvaHere! So cringe-yShock

@niceandtoasty I know it's all so crazy. I am very thankful for MN, as it seems to be the only place we can discuss what is happening. I don't mean to be a defeatist, but I'm getting very afraid that there is nothing we can do. In Canada, we don't even have a site like MN for women, any conversation on social media is shut down.

Should we just choose a day and ALL Self-ID as men? Can we start heading into exclusive men's clubs? Or should we just cave and say ok then there is no such thing as a man since those with a penis are considered women - ergo no men exist. How would men react to these ideas?

Sorry, I'm just so blooming frustrated!

confusednotcom2 · 09/02/2018 06:43

I think if we all self ID’d as men and demanded access to the clubs, pay rises at work, etc. all of a sudden there might be a debate. Strange that.

thenightsky · 09/02/2018 11:47

I don't think there would be a debate confused. I think we'd just get arrested and ridiculed and called aggressive rad fems Sad

confusednotcom2 · 09/02/2018 15:41

So true

LegitimatelyIllegitimate · 09/02/2018 16:34

Why the hell is it OK for a man with a penis to shower with women and girls, but it isn't OK for a women with tits to swim with them on show? Either we are ignoring the biological reality (tits, penis) or we aren't. You can't have it both ways

Very badly written.

But also indicative of who's throwing their weight about - notice it's all about men who want to identify as women.

It's all about the men.

Same old, same old masculine privilege.

gussyfinknottle · 10/02/2018 17:11

I self ID as a man and want my bloody pay rise.

TheRagingGirl · 10/02/2018 18:20

ME too!

I’m wearing trousers and boots today. And my hair’s in a man-bun

No1IronGirderRS · 10/02/2018 21:10

It seems to be that the biggest problem with separate spaces is now where to draw the line, so what if spaces were defined by chromosomes. There is absolutely no way to alter chromosomes. Therefore if the choices for changing rooms/prisons/hospital wards/refuges/spas, etc were based on XX or XY, where anyone who didn't wish to go with their chromosomes would have an alternate third space.

No1IronGirderRS · 10/02/2018 21:18

^^oh and sports too, definitely sports!

ChattyLion · 10/08/2019 08:37

This thread hasn’t been posted on for a long time but I thought of this thread and how this Swim England policy centred men’s rights relative to people with other protected characteristics, including race and sex, because:

BBC article today on the under- representation of black girls and women in competitive swimming.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49247624

‘The BBC sent a Freedom of Information request to Swim England asking how many competitive swimmers who are registered with them identify as black or mixed race. The national governing body responded saying just 668 out of 73,000.
It comes as Swim England has told the BBC it's seen a rise in the number of BAME people swimming recreationally over the past few years.’

‘A Swim England spokesperson said: "Swim England is working to understand the challenges and barriers to swimming and other aquatic activity through the project Barriers to Swimming."
It says the project aims to understand the barriers that communities have in making swimming and other aquatic activities a regular habit.’

Anyone seen anything about this current project for Swim England that is addressing the barriers to swimming or unmet needs to BAME women and girls? I can’t find anything about it on their website anywhere. Confused

www.swimming.org/~widgets/ASA_Research_Library/Black%20Minority%20Ethnic%20Swimming/ExBME8%20Sporting%20Equals%20BME%20Communities%20and%20Swimming%202012.pdf

^ This is a relevant report that a group called Sportingly Equals did from 2012. (Not done by Swim England.) it backs up what this thread has been saying in relation to single sex facilities (or lack of) btw.

13. Summary and Conclusions
The majority of BME people (85%) had participated in physical activity in the previous twelve months. Of these, three quarters (75%) had taken part in swimming. However, only 17% had been swimming in the previous four weeks. This suggests that there are a lot of lapsed swimmers that could be encouraged to take up swimming again. There is a lot of motivation to do so with 59% of respondents saying they would like to swim more often.
A third of respondents do not go swimming because they cannot swim and a further quarter of respondents are dissatisfied with swimming facilities in their local area.
Lack of time, expense, self concept of not being sporty or not having anyone to go with are major barriers to participating in swimming. Barriers more prevalent amongst BME people include the requirement for single sex facilities, facilities catering for cultural or religious needs and, in the case of Asians, allowing them to dress according to their cultural or religious requirements. Catering for these requirements would encourage more BME people to participate in swimming. As more BME people take part in swimming, this would, in itself have a significant impact on BME participation levels.
Three quarters of BME respondents say they are more likely to participate in physical activity if their family or friends participated also. Therefore any efforts promoting family and friends swimming together is likely to be an effective way of increasing participation.
The interest in pop-up-pools should be tapped into and promoted appropriately within target communities. It is important that ASA ensures that marketing of campaigns like the ‘Big Splash’ reach BME audiences through appropriate channels of communication and the use of ethnic media.’

DwightYouIgnorantSlut · 10/08/2019 08:40

YANBU. Men will try and invade any women’s spaces they can. It’s disgusting.

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