Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

[TheXXFactor]

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

My gym has small communal changing rooms.

I feel quite worried by this.

But also...

You know how there's often threads about boys in women's changing rooms?

We all know young boys are relatively vulnerable. But most of us (not you, blondie, making me wait 15 minutes to get changed on Sunday) ask our sons over a certain age to get changed in the men's changing room. We might worry a bit about them while they're in there. We might hover. But we don't force other women to tolerate young males in our women-only nudey spaces.

We're all in knots about it.

Or maybe it's just me. I'm often in knots about my son going into a different changing room. But despite that trepidation we think of the majority and we also teach our sons that women deserve dignity.

Why is this so different?

So any old perv can just say he's trans so he can shower with young girls. Must be a paedophiles dream. Unfucking unbelievable.

The showers at all the public pools I’ve been to are either on the side of the pool and mixed so everyone showers next to each other in swimwear, or cubicles in the changing rooms, so everyone is in a cubicle if they are naked.

Where are all these pools with naked people of one gender/sex whatever showing together? I’ve honestly never seen this anywhere.

'Gender reassignment is the process of transitioning from one gender to another,
and is one of the 9 Protected Characteristics outlined in the Equality Act (2010).
To be protected from gender reassignment discrimination, you DO NOT need to have undergone any specific
treatment or surgery to change from your birth sex to your preferred gender. This is because changing your
physiological or other gender attributes is a personal process rather than a medical one.
The Equality Act (2010) says that you must not be discriminated against because you are transsexual;
that is your gender identity differs from the gender assigned to you at birth.
You can be at any stage in the transition process – from proposing to reassign your gender, to undergoing a
process to reassign your gender, or having completed it.'

This is all they have to say about the equality act even though they make full use of exemptions for competitors!

Notevil, my gym has one public shower, which I sometimes use so I can hover outside men's changing room, as detailed above, to fret about my child.
The rest are in changing rooms and aren't particularly private - closed on two sides.
Most people use the changing room ones.

SuperLoud it’s not different at all in real terms. But in the land of ‘feels’ we all have to accept an adult penis in a woman’s changing room because that particular man will be by law a woman.

Last time I saw this configuration was at my uni gym. Before that, high school changing rooms.
But I am willing to believe a lot of us use this set-up.
I have no idea why there aren't more private cubicles. But there we are.

sfz, do you think it's an argument that might work to shift opinion? It's the only one I've come across with the vulnerability parallel.

No SuperLoudPoppingAction yoru not alone.

It's why I like the family/community changing rooms and showers at local swimming pools with proper cubicles with large well fitted doors and general good behaviour.

DS is too old to be in with me and the girls – so when by myself ‘d have to send him into the men’s then worry why he was taking so long or having to wait for us somewhere. It’s nice not to have that worry – few more years I’d probably not worry but he’s still relatively young.

It looks that way Borderline.

Unfortunately it just needs to get madder and madder until the majority see it - and then the blow up.

Can't come quickly enough.

Where are all these pools with naked people of one gender/sex whatever showing together? I’ve honestly never seen this anywhere.

The swimming pool I use is like this. There are shower cubicals but they don’t have curtains. Many people do shower naked. The changing area is mostly benches with a couple of cubicals. So even if you didn’t shower naked, you are getting changed in the middle of a communal space.

The other local pool has an entirely communal shower that some people do shower naked in. The changing area is mostly cubicals though.

Every gym I’ve ever been to has had communal single sex changing, and most people don’t use the cubicals. Some women put their make up on and dry their hair before getting dressed in them.

Perhaps insisting on shower doors might be a good idea in that particular pool Super?

Or it might be a way to insist on a family changing area?

The swimming pool I use has communal showers anyway and it's still very popular with teenagers (the leisure centre is built on the same land as a secondary school so I presume they get some kind of discount?). Everyone just showers in their costumes and doesn't strip until they're in a changing cubicle. I didn't think this was a new thing either, I remember going swimming as a child and there being communal changing as well.

Family changing in all swimming pools near me. Showers are open and you keep swimsuit on. Cubicals with proper doors in changing room.

Works well. Brilliant for families as both parents can help. Also ideal for all gender identities.

TBH, as with everything, most trans women are likely to be very discreet and use a cubical/not shower naked. Because they’re perfectly sensible people who don’t want to cause a fuss or make anyone uncomfortable. Unfortunately, it’s the aggressive, difficult online TRA warrior types that will insist on ensuring everyone sees their ‘lady penis’.

Fuck this. Just fuck this.

"Sorry that should be not enforceable under law."

The problem is that these guidelines are based on legislation as interpreted by batshit insane transgender lobby groups.

So there is a legal basis for them. That's not to say the batshit mental lobbyists are correct, but that's their interpretation and nobody is contradicting them effectively.

Absolutely, borderline11.

If you see a bloke in the women's toilets, you will be the hateful person for daring to feel uncomfortable, let alone worrying that he might be up to no good.

I for one will be investing in a supply of incontinence pants because sure as hell i'm not going to go in communal public conveniences if any man can wander in who says he feels like a woman at that moment.

(Municipal swimming pools are so putrid that they are best avoided - penises or no penises...)

I don’t think anyone can rely on anyone being perfectly sensible to be honest, regardless of what’s between their legs. I suspect some men will take full advantage of getting their kicks in the women’s showers and no one will be able to say anything about it at all because everyone is so fucking frightened of being seen to be bigoted.

It seems that the rights of the majority are once again being trampled on for the demanded rights of the few. I have no problem with trans people but feel that I and my young daughter should feel comfortable changing and that our rights are should not be compromised or ignored for the sake of the rights of people who have not yet fully transitioned. Once surgically fully transitioned they are women and so obviously the right changing room for them is with other women but not before. I am also alarmed at the mixed sex toilets in the local high school

Our local gym and pool has separate changing for men and women. In the women's one, there are only two cubicles so most change by the benches. Some are very confident and bare all and others like me are shy and already find it hard to change with everyone around me!!
I can't imagine how much worse it will be for shy women or those who've experienced rape or Muslim women if men get to come in as well.

'Lady penis'????

WTF is that?

The guidance suggest that unisex changing villages with cubicles for changing and showering are the way forward.

This is the best solution for families as well surely? That way mums and sons or dads and daughters can swim together without worrying.

aren't there already communal showers for men and women together in loads of swimming pools? Granted, because they are communal most people keep their costumes on, but it isn't a totally new paradigm

This is the case at my local pool, but a relative I know who works there has told me that every so often they have to deal with a naked man. The poor fool didn’t realise that the obviously open to everyone, shower in front of the pool requires you to keep your costume on. 🙄