As a woman, you can’t just go to work and go home 🙄.

[joseline]

i recently got my graphic design job months ago and I really like the job so far.

i have been working for 8 months.

but a week ago, I got called out by my manager who is also a woman because I don’t interact with other coworkers other then good morning or have a good evening. I only talk to them about the work at hand but I never have small talks, I never have lunch with them. I do my job and go home.

my boss called me out because, a woman coworker recently came out after being on leave. I don’t know why and I do not care. It’s not my business. When she came back I didn’t welcome her cheerfully. I said good morning to her like everyone else. And it’s not like this coworker has no work friends, I basically got called out because I am not kissing her ass.

i am not the only one who have gone through those petty dramas over nothing.

my women cousins told me stories of other women at various jobs they worked at starting ridiculous conflicts because they just did their job and went home and didn’t wanna be buddy buddy with their women coworkers.

I am starting to think that there is a ridiculous unspoken rule of being a girl’s girl and you’ll a social outcast when you refuse to be in a clique.

I understand there are cases of women getting harassed by men at work but in my personal experience whenever I’ve had any sort of beef with coworkers, it’s always been other women. The men always left me alone.

are me and my cousins the only ones who experienced those phenomenons ?

I’ve read this before
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/5226850-coworkers-complained-to-our-supervisor-because-i-am-indifferent-why-are-people-so-needy?page=34

One is legal misogny. The other is illegal misogyny.

Yes, anyone who thinks men don't have pressure to conform socially isn't very observant.

I'm not a people person and I'm not interested in being friends with my colleagues, but I haven't experienced this personally since the temp jobs I took just after graduating (in industries I had no interest in). Once I got into my chosen career, finding the right level of socialising was easy because I was actually interested in my industry and so were my colleagues, so that was an easy topic of conversation without getting too personal.

What I did notice in those temp jobs is that this kind of conformist pressure to be sociable is very very correlated to "performing" your gender correctly. The kind of women who emphasise it will want you to coo over baby pictures and bond over diet chat. The kind of men who prize it will be all about the football. It was really good motivation not to be stuck in those offices and to make friends with people who weren't so incredibly basic.

I'm not sure tbh. I know people have been 'told off' for not attending things. I doubt it would go as far as a formal reprimand though given its unlikely to be a contractual term. Which I'd imagine is the same for OP. Being sidelined is problematic enough though for the men who don't participate. My point, this is definitely not a thing men are immune from.

Yes I left my previous job at a law firm as the female dominated environment was similar to this. Unprofessional issues and drama about nothing.

If I good at my job, professional, a team player & polite it is honestly no one’s business whatever else I do or do not do. I find this sort of emotional management style so embarrassing.

Unless they are in a customer facing job, no they don't. I'm really surprised that nobody seems to be aware of this pressure put on women. Is it because it is other women enforcing it?

I think you do need to make some level of small talk. Just “how was your weekend” or “isn’t it cold out”.

It’s a minimal amount of effort to smooth over some relationships. Light interactions are really important to some people. Accept that and behave accordingly.

I manage a team of 9 men and 4 women. I have a friendly relationship with them all. I think it’s perfectly normal to talk about more than work, and our working lives are richer for it. I can’t actually imagine having a colleague that spoke only about work, it seems odd.

I suppose there may be some internalised misogyny at play in OP lumping all women together as problematic, yes. However I was comparing the problems OP is experiencing not comnenting on her attitude when I said that.

I'm really surprised that you can make such a sweeping statement without any idea what you're talking about.

I can think of two occasions in my career when I have had to speak to staff about needing to make more effort with regard to building relationships with colleagues. Both of them were men. Neither of them were in customer facing roles, but they did need to work with their colleagues effectively. As most people do.

In my sector, it would not be acceptable for any member of staff to function like a robot without making a basic effort to build rapport with their colleagues. This is not a gendered expectation, it is a basic requirement of the job. Perhaps it is different in other sectors where teamwork isn't really required...if indeed such sectors actually exist.

No, I meant that expecting women to play nice is legal misogyny. That being said, I appreciate a PP's point that the way that men and women are meant to perform differs by sex, so a man might be expected to go down the pub with the lads and go to football, whereas women are expected to be nurturing. It's actually a very interesting topic.

I’ve been pulled aside twice for the same thing in my life.

I do my job and go home. I’ve got no desire to make friends or talk about anything personal. I went to work because I had to. No other reason.

I went to HR both times, I won’t be told to be sociable. Got a problem with my work? Fine. But don’t reprimand me because I don’t want to talk shit with someone about their children who I don’t care about.

Only on Mumsnet. "Why should I have to talk to anyone at work. Besides, they never shut up plus they're all a bit crap and needy and I'm so far up my own arse that I really think I'm better than all of them"

The place is frigging awash with superiority complexes.

As for "disocial" further up the thread - ha ha!

Id suggest its the people who appear to require a "tell me about your weekend, im so interested" ego stroke to be able to work effectively with their colleagues that should have been spoken to.

(Assuming you were just referring to frilly niceties when you mentioned making more of an effort and not something that would actually affect their outputs)

I agree. I have worked in teams with expectations of friendship rather than mere friendliness, but have never seen it as something women were particularly pressured to participate in. If anything I've been aware of the other side, when the 'lads' all take off together and as one of only a couple of women, you don't get invited. Which isn't a problem when it comes to missing Dave's stag do obviously, but isn't ideal when you know the sort of bonds are being formed that help careers and you're excluded from that.

I don’t think I’m better than anyone. Far from it. When I worked, I just wanted to be at home. I was there out of necessity.

I didn’t want to make small talk or make friends. I just wanted to do what I was paid to do and go home.

I get it.

You have to fake it a bit to get by in a work environment.

It’s not just women, my DP has had a meeting like this at work too. They asked him if was a bit of a loner and said he had to make more effort with everyone and come out of his shell. He was concentrating on his job and it hadn’t occurred to him that other people cared what he was doing.

People are insecure and think you have something against them or that you think you’re superior to them if you don’t play the social game.

Exactly. OP sounds like an awful person to have as a coworker!

I've always been deeply unsociable at work but I think if anything I get away with it because I'm a woman, although mine is a very male dominated environment so perhaps that's why? In general though I think it's just the people you work with.

All the places I have worked that banged on (endlessly) about how "friendly" they were invariably used it as a pretext for unpaid overtime in some form or another

I'm talking about the normal basic social skills that most people manage quite naturally.

There is plenty of research that illustrates the importance of investing in relationships for optimal team performance, so I'm certainly not going to tell the whole team to behave in an antisocial manner simply to please the tiny minority of misanthropes who can't be arsed to make any effort.

I am absolutely not expecting people to chat all day, spend lunchtimes together, socialise outside of work or become best buddies. I merely expect them to show a basic level of social competence in interactions with their colleagues.

And before anyone rushes to tell me that this unfairly disadvantages people who are ND, I'm ND myself and I've had many ND employees over the years who have been perfectly capable of interacting effectively with their colleagues.

It's mostly about people who think that they shouldn't have to make any effort, as evidenced by some of the people on this thread. That's absolutely their prerogative, but I don't need people like that on my team.

I do think there’s an expectation to fit into a workplace culture to some extent and maybe this workplace isn’t a good fit for you.

I used to work with a woman like this in my 20s. She was from an orthadox Jewish background and at first I though there may be some cultural taboo against becoming too involved with non Jews. Later when I had mixed more with other people of this faith I realised that it was just her personality. There are chartty Jews just as there are non chatty Jews and it had nothing to do with her faith. She would give you a civil good morning but would not engage in any kind of social chitchat. Her tone implied that this was private and she was simply not interested. However one day when I asked her somehting about the work she spent 20 minutes patiently explaining the task. She was obviously one of those people who had strong boundaries between her social and working life, as she was fully entitled to do.

As I got older I myself began to put in strong boundaries such that I do not discuss my personal business with strangers, randoms and neighbours. In fact I avoid these interactions whenever possible.

It's not being 'cold as ice' to keep work and home separate, it's something I always did. I found others constantly talking about their homes, children, marital woes etc etc exceedingly boring, it was like living in a soap opera.

To be clear, I don't think anyone should have to disclose details about their personal lives to colleagues in the workplace. Nobody is demanding that staff should feel under pressure to share their personal information, but it's perfectly possible to make an effort with colleagues without giving anyone your life story.