As a woman, you can’t just go to work and go home 🙄.

[joseline]

i recently got my graphic design job months ago and I really like the job so far.

i have been working for 8 months.

but a week ago, I got called out by my manager who is also a woman because I don’t interact with other coworkers other then good morning or have a good evening. I only talk to them about the work at hand but I never have small talks, I never have lunch with them. I do my job and go home.

my boss called me out because, a woman coworker recently came out after being on leave. I don’t know why and I do not care. It’s not my business. When she came back I didn’t welcome her cheerfully. I said good morning to her like everyone else. And it’s not like this coworker has no work friends, I basically got called out because I am not kissing her ass.

i am not the only one who have gone through those petty dramas over nothing.

my women cousins told me stories of other women at various jobs they worked at starting ridiculous conflicts because they just did their job and went home and didn’t wanna be buddy buddy with their women coworkers.

I am starting to think that there is a ridiculous unspoken rule of being a girl’s girl and you’ll a social outcast when you refuse to be in a clique.

I understand there are cases of women getting harassed by men at work but in my personal experience whenever I’ve had any sort of beef with coworkers, it’s always been other women. The men always left me alone.

are me and my cousins the only ones who experienced those phenomenons ?

I’ve never been particularly pally or sociable with people at work but I do talk to them. You do sound quite miserable to be honest would it kill you to say more than hello and good evening?

Which would be fine if 'good weekend?' always resulted in 'good thanks' but often it doesn't. It's followed by well.....boring anecdotes about every petty drama they've been involved in and then people being expected to listen, advise, sympathise...

Which is where these 'informal social contacts' fall down where one side isn't looking for politeness but engagement.

Which is what happened here. OP said hello, good morning to someone who'd returned from leave and was pulled up for not engaging in oooh why were you off? how was it? Etc which OP isn't interested in and why should she be? Which opens the door to well...this happened and this happened

If it's sick leave then the manager is obligated to enquire about the person's sickness and wellbeing in private.

Nobody else should be obligated to feign excitement or interest in someone else's return.

I can relate although I'm quite social. I take temporary contracts and I have that noticed that all female environments are often toxic (hard to avoid them in the Arts as it is stuffed with women) and I much prefer mixed environments. Female led environments often have Queen B types and strong mean girl vibes. They are rife with passive aggression, sly bullying tactics, and they often hone in on women who don't fit the clique and bully them. Conversations about toxic femininity are really badly needed, but everyone likes to pretend it doesn't happen.

I thought it was interesting that when the Women's Equality Party was formed, it didn't take them long to turn on Heather Brunskell-Evans and leave her in shreds. I wonder how many other women they turned on? It didn't surprise me at all when the Party fell apart.

I'm with you OP. Work is horrid enough without having to talk to people as well.

I think you were hoping that posters would agree with you based on the fact you tried to put a misogynistic spin on it.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your sex or the sex of your boss or who went on maternity leave.

Some workplaces just expect you to be more sociable and involved than others.
It does not matter if you’re a woman or not.

I agree that some women can be bitchy, especially if you are pretty. I too have had my fair share.
But again I wouldn’t label all women bitchy because some aren’t and I am not either, so again it’s not a sex issue.

As though every male-dominated political party since the dawn of time has not had similar in-fighting and internal battles.

I agree with this.

I think it is gendered. If we're honest, women can be a complete nightmare, especially in groups. Nine times out of ten, it's the women stirring office drama, and they can be a total pita to manage.

As I said - The ideal is to place yourself somewhere in the middle ground between good morning and goodnight, and endless talking and meaningless chat. An adult should be perfectly capable of saying 'how was your weekend' and another adult should be perfectly capable of saying 'it was lovely/insert polite word of choice thanks, how was yours?' in return. As you get to know someone a bit better, you might throw in something about the awful weather, or the fact you went to see a film, and the other person could respond with 'oh I saw that advertised, it looks good', something like that. Then you can both get on with your day having been friendly (on one hand) with no dramas or oversharing (on the other hand). Easy peasy.

Agree.

Women aren't stupid, if someone comes in with the attitude of "all other women are horrible and bitchy/I'm not like other girls" they'll soon pick up on it.

Nobody should expect you to be best friends with colleagues or disclose every personal detail of your life, most people working outside the house spend more (awake) time per day with their colleagues than with their families or friends so a bit of pleasantness isn't much to ask.

What would exhanging a bit of small talk cost you, exactly? The detrimental to you of taking 30 seconds to say "did you have a nice weekend?" Or "nice top!" is so incredibly miniscule, whereas the potential benefits even from such easy interaction are so significant, anyone who doesn't do them just seems like they're doing so to make a point, which, yeah, most people will then react badly to, which you will perceive as being bitchy and "bullying" you, and the cycle continues.

I didn't realise people were expected tk be best buddies with work mates. Some people just like to keep themselves to themselves. Its not a crime. I have worked with people who like to keep their private life private and as far as I can remember, nobody thought it was wierd

In my experience it is only women who expect their colleagues to meet their social needs and need their colleagues to make them feel liked to be able to work well with them. I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting social connections at work, I have them and it has been really helpful to have emotional support when going through a hard time. I do think those who don't want those connections shouldn't be forced in to it and I don't think it should have any impact on their career development. It is very possible to work well with people without having to engage in small talk or talk about personal life. I have seen men act that way and climb the ladder.

"Do I look like a fucking people person ?"

I'm surprised at these answers. I think as long as you are civil, they can't expect anything more than that. This expecting everyone to be buddy buddy is a form of bullying.

I think you and your cousins are likely in a minority if you lump together workplace harassment by men and being expected to socialise with women as 'beef', as though they are equal and the same; extrapolating from that that women are a greater problem. At least I'd hope you'd be in a minority. Because it's a bit silly of you, and pretty offensive to women who've had their working lives ruined due to sexual harassment.
If you don't want to talk to the women, it's not a sackable offence, and in time they'll stop bothering with you. However, you can't then complain there are 'cliques' if you've been offered the opportunity to join in and decided to decline.

I find it hard to believe that men have been pulled up for that alone. It is very much a woman thing. Unless they are a redcoat at Butlins, men are not expected to be 'on' in the way that women are.

I don't think OP was saying they were the same. I think she was saying that sexual harrassment is rarer, and I would have to agree. I'm not saying that sexual harrassment doesn't still happen: regrettably, it does. However, from my anecdata, I have been sexually harrassed in one workplace. I have encountered issues similar to the OP's in far more than one.

You are right. And bugger the lot of them - you do your job. What more do they want?

Not true. My DS works in a male dominated team and there's very much a culture of 'we're all mates here'. Regular socials, football matches, outdoorsy weekends, joining in the chat and jokes in the office etc. Which as it happens he enjoys. Luckily, as those that don't are definitely not as visible or well regarded. I don't think they've been pulled up on it, it's a more subtle dismissal as not being the right fit for the culture and being a bit sidelined.

Urgh, that sounds like hell! Also, though, I'm kind of correct in that the ones who don't participate in the office culture are sidelined rather than actually reprimanded.

As an introvert, who took about 5-10 years to fully get the hang of small talk, I do think you need to be making a bit more effort with the social side of working in a team to be functioning well at work, otherwise as you've observed, people start to think you don't like them and it affects the team.

Just small stuff like "how was your weekend?"/ "You got any plans for the weekend" is enough. That's Monday and Fridays conversation topics covered anyway.

But it's not easy peasy when the other people are not aware of this 'social contract' and see any engagement as an invitation to chat shit endlessly.

Which happens a lot.

All the people in my workplace complaining about lack of interaction because we weren't in the office during covid were the ones who spent hours every day chatting shit.

And if their usual chat-shit allies weren't around would try to drag other people into it no matter what social cues they demonstrated saying they weren't open to it and needed to get on and work.

We had front line jobs where our kids could be kept in school but most didn't bother as we could WFH. There were a couple who didn't want to be at home with their kids so sat in empty offices all day complaining about the lack of social interaction and how it was impacting on THEM not their ability to do their jobs.

So would zoom people with inane shit chat instead.

And that's why a lot of people after years of putting up with that shit and being told they were aloof or unfriendly or antisocial found out their lives were infinitely better not having to listen to Tanya or Mandy or whoevers latest complaint about their DIL/MIL/neighbour, or client just decided they weren't going to 'play the game' anymore.

OP is one and it's ridiculous she's been pulled up on not showing some invented team-player interest in someone's return from leave.

I don't see why OPs needs and wellbeing is less important than her colleagues who is pissed off she wasn't performing excited to see her come back.

Of course men get pulled up on this stuff if they aren't making a sufficient effort.

We're not talking about high level empathy here, we're talking about very basic social skills that are necessary in order to make teams function effectively.

The casual lumping together of sexual harassment with women wanting her to be friendlier is jarring nonetheless. The two things are not remotely the same. One is about a culture that's clearly a poor fit for OPs personality, the other is illegal misogyny.

That sounds like an incredibly immature environment.