re all the discussion about being at home or working, just found this comment on another website - what do you think?

[ssd]

"Just thought I'd point out that parents who spend more time at work than they do with their kids - whether through choice or compulsion is irrelevant really - are going to be relatively inexperienced at childcare. How is a parent who puts their first baby in nursery - or with a nanny - or other paid servant - from 8.30-6.30 five days a week - going to be able judge how that care has or has not affected their child? They can barely manage the little tyke themselves at the weekend. Plenty of high-achievers have had miserable childhoods at the hands of paid carers. Peter Ustinov, raised largely by nannies, noted in his autobiography how vulnerable children are to being the brunt of a servant's frustrations, and how unlikely this is to come to either the parent or the child's attention as being abnormal or even wrong. Read the first chapter of Mary Poppins and laugh (or cry!) Like all things, if you want to ensure that the job is well done, do it yourself or entrust it to someone you know really well and trust; otherwise it is really the blind leading the blind."

actually makes a lot of sense to me, what do others think?

I think that even if you are out of the house all that time, you are still with the baby when on maternity leave, still get up in the night when they are ill/not sleeping, still do everything all weekend and when on leave from work. I think you would know your child better than anyone else and be very experienced in looking after your child.

i think it is a load of crap and quite mad too. mary poppins?!

agree with fishie. Seems very 19th century- servants?

Rubbish. It is saying that childcare is crap and that's pretty insulting to all the lovely nursery workers and childminders, teachers etc.

BTW the piece was written in response to an article Elenor Mills wrote in this weeks Sunday Times

The days of a nanny doing everything as in the days of Mary Poppins are gone. Nannies need to have time off now which was never really considered then and so parents inevitably do more now even if they work full-time. Show me a family where the nanny does everything. It will be very rare. Therefore I think this comment is largey irrelevant in this day and age. I know plenty of women who go back to work because they think they are crap moms because they cannot do all the wonderful things that SAHM are supposed to do such as painting, home cooking etc. I think when we get away from this image of what a real mom should be, as perpetuated by the media and concentrate on enjoying being with your kids, more moms and dads will feel more confident in looking after their own kids whether they work or not. People are led to expect too much from people. My dad never saw his mother during the day, she was a widow with loads of kids and needed to work to feed them. He roamed around all day with his brothers and he remembers his childhood and mother fondly. She was always a strong figure in their lives and a loving parent.

Minette Mari wrote in the Sunday Times today "you can't have two demanding careers, children and a good marriage". I agree.

Pile of shite

well we have 3 demanding children, 2 careers and a good marriage ....... perhaps it's easier the more kids you have!!! Seriously Satine, that's a pretty sad view to have. I think children, marriage and career are 3 pretty central things to life, and it's sad to thing some people limit their lives by saying you can't achieve them.

bizarre, untrue and insulting ...

By and large, I agree.

"They can barely manage the little tyke themselves at the weekend" Speak for yourself!

And..... my mother didn't do any paid work once my brother was born. And she was so busy with housework, gardening, sewing etc that I had very little interaction with her throughout the day. I was expected to entertain myself and I did. We are all made to feel failures if we don't spend all our waking hours entertaining our kids - why is that?

I do think finding good quality childcare is nearly impossible though. I've tried nurseries (staffed by kids), childminders (spend most of their time walking up and down the street to do school run/ playgroup run) and tried to find a suitable nanny (we didn't).

In the end I stayed at home as I could do a much better job myself.

That Minette Marrin piece made me fume. She talked about men changing nappies for their wives. Now unless the wives in question are incontinent,I would suggest that they are changing nappies for their children, and alpha male or no, my dh did his share of that.

And I am a SAHM.

'how vulnerable children are to being the brunt of a servant's frustrations'

Well, you could substitute 'parent' for servant there and it would still be true...

Maybe you were unlucky with childcare. Don't agree that it's almost impossible to find good childcare. Most childcare is good, some excellent, some less than satisfactory and to be avoided, and none of it perfect. Rather like being a parent!!

TBH I think it comes down to the childcare you can find and the deep joy you have as a parent.

I was lucky I used a nursey x 2 and a nanny (still in touch 3 years later) and a great childminder. None of thge statements about nuseries being run by kids, childminders walking up and down doing school runs were true in my case, and I don't think true in a lot.

Satine we have 2 kids, 2 demanding careers (DH is away right now for 2 months) and a damn good marrige (coming up 10 years) my dh is my right arm and my kids are central to my life. My work is great - I am the main breadwinner, and my dh works in a job he loves - as an actor.

I feel sorry for you

even when ds1 and ds2 were in fulltime childcare, they were still in my/dh's care far more than they were in the creche. BTW I feel that the time they spend in the creche can be far more productive than time at home, they do loads of arts and crafts that I don't have the time/skills to do.

personally I like a mix- they (and I ) benefitted rom a bit of time away from me even when I wa a SAHM.

Wonder how he'd react to my Sis, leaves son at my Mum's every day, 7.30 - 6 some days, to go and manage a nursery? How does his (why am I assuming a him?? or her) argument fit there I wonder?

Ah yes Mary Poppins

That awful Mrs Banks wasting all her time with that terrible suffragette nonsense

Should have been in the kitchen making pies

LOL MP

yes, not exactly unimportant stuff she was up to was it?

(Anyway, I hear (whispers quietly so as not to offend delicate constitutions) that Mary Poppins was fiction...)

Ha! Peachy....now that is offensive....

Interesting. I am a sahm. Mostly due to a velcro baby first time round who wouldn't eat until over one. I looked at a number of childcare options but tbh I think dd1 would have been miserable in all of them due to her high needs.

DD2 I think would be ok not brilliant but ok but it is a moot point for now anyway.

I am intrigued by the couples I have seen mainly prior to be leaving work. Both in highly demanding jobs early ish starts and 6pm ish finishes (only one the other one would be later).

Their babies/children in nursery from 7 until 6.30/7. The ones I know the kids had all their meals at nursery and the parents dressed them in the mornings dropped them off, picked them up bath and bed. Weekends are different for everyone to during the week diff activities people around etc then back to the grind on Monday.

I really don't know how you can know a baby/child all that well in that sort of regime. But thatis from my 24 hour a day perspective, am interested to hear from anyone doing this. Some of the folks I knew had no idea what their kids ate or drank and never prepared a meal for them as they ate out all weekend.

Mrs Apron,

I know one such couple who does this.....it is quite a harsh regimeon a child. They use a day nursery as well - I think having a nanny is much more preferable in that type of situation.

Now if I could have found my Mary Poppins I may have gone back to work for 30 hours tops but I do think nobody can care for my children as well as I can.