re all the discussion about being at home or working, just found this comment on another website - what do you think?

[ssd]

"Just thought I'd point out that parents who spend more time at work than they do with their kids - whether through choice or compulsion is irrelevant really - are going to be relatively inexperienced at childcare. How is a parent who puts their first baby in nursery - or with a nanny - or other paid servant - from 8.30-6.30 five days a week - going to be able judge how that care has or has not affected their child? They can barely manage the little tyke themselves at the weekend. Plenty of high-achievers have had miserable childhoods at the hands of paid carers. Peter Ustinov, raised largely by nannies, noted in his autobiography how vulnerable children are to being the brunt of a servant's frustrations, and how unlikely this is to come to either the parent or the child's attention as being abnormal or even wrong. Read the first chapter of Mary Poppins and laugh (or cry!) Like all things, if you want to ensure that the job is well done, do it yourself or entrust it to someone you know really well and trust; otherwise it is really the blind leading the blind."

actually makes a lot of sense to me, what do others think?

Can you have it all? I'm not so sure, I bow down to those who think they can bring up well adapted, emotionally stable children, manage 2 demanding careers, have a fabulous marriage, wonderful sex life and still cook a dinner party for 10. Whereas I for one feel as if I am clinging on by my finger tips, I must be a lesser person than they.

I don't think the OP was about having it all, rather the same old stereotype about WOHMs.

Personally, I muddle through. Sometimes I think I do everything well, sometimes nothing seems right. Regardless of whether I work 35 hours a week or 10 hours a week at the time, or am staying at home on maternity leave or whatever.

Is that what's meant by having it all? Time to raise the bar perhaps. Dinner parties for at least 20 surely.

'Minette Mari wrote in the Sunday Times today "you can't have two demanding careers, children and a good marriage"'.

So? That's what MM thinks. Poor her. Anyway, she forgot the dinner parties.

Sorry, I didn't read the whole of the original post. Poor MM eh? Still she got paid for writing it so she can buy something to cheer herself up.

I think what Minette Marin was referring to is the absolute treadmill that so many women are on these days, trying to maintain a demanding career, run a household, bring children up in a loving, stable and nurturing environment, keep a marriage alive and thriving, not let herself go, and still keep her head above water without letting stress, guilt or sheer exhaustion drag her under.

To hell with the endless wohm/sahm debate, isn't this lifestyle just madness? As WH Auden said, if there's no time to stand and stare then your life will be over in a great mad rush, before you've had a chance to catch up with yourself.

I think you mean WH Davies. Not Auden.

But why is it women 'running a household' (actually I'm never exactly sure what this means)? I have to say that the various inmates of the Inferiority Complex stagger along, admittedly collapsing frequently under the strain of it all, but both DP and I work (through choice as well as necessity - I do not want to be a SAHM, I so very much don't) and our childcare actually most of the time is pretty fabulous, and the Inferiorettes seem to be fabulous and pretty, and no it's not madly straightforward but it does function.

(I have avoided Letting Myself Go by never having Much To Let Go in the first place.)

Running a household - making sure that there is food, loo rolls, washing powder. Making beds, hoovering, doing the laundry. Cooking meals. Getting the boiler serviced. Tidying up. Thinking ahead to make sure that there are clean sports clothes, new football boots, ironed shirts, etc etc.

I'm not saying that this should be the sole responsibility of the wife but honestly, would your dh do much forward planning or spontaneous housework without being told? Much of the work falls to the wife, because generally she gets on and does it, rather than explaining what needs to be done to someone else.

My experience is not like satine's, certainly. I can't honestly say I've ever had the boiler serviced, just repaired, but then I don't thnk dh has either. We split stuff fairly evenly I would say, and it's just evolved the way it has, not been very angsty. I guess if I was at home all day maybe dh would assume I would have time to do more, but I don't know.

I think some jobs expand to fill the time available. Yes, you could make doing the weekly shop, checking the loo roll situation, tidying up and waiting in for the plumber into a full time job if you choose. I have one acquaintance whose children are all in school now who does exactly that. When my kids were pre-school age, i knew some SAHMs who also spent a lot of their day tidying,cleaning or going to coffee mornings to get out of the house. They didn't necessarily spend any more time actually interacting with their children than the WOHMs I knew. But it's also quite possible to run a happy,busy household and have a life outside it. I would prefer to be teaching than doing the above mentioned jobs - I like the fact that i get to use my brain in a different way, and get to interact with a range of people.OK, my house isn't spotless.... but who cares? My kids don't!