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re all the discussion about being at home or working, just found this comment on another website - what do you think?

216 replies

ssd · 11/04/2007 09:15

"Just thought I'd point out that parents who spend more time at work than they do with their kids - whether through choice or compulsion is irrelevant really - are going to be relatively inexperienced at childcare. How is a parent who puts their first baby in nursery - or with a nanny - or other paid servant - from 8.30-6.30 five days a week - going to be able judge how that care has or has not affected their child? They can barely manage the little tyke themselves at the weekend. Plenty of high-achievers have had miserable childhoods at the hands of paid carers. Peter Ustinov, raised largely by nannies, noted in his autobiography how vulnerable children are to being the brunt of a servant's frustrations, and how unlikely this is to come to either the parent or the child's attention as being abnormal or even wrong. Read the first chapter of Mary Poppins and laugh (or cry!) Like all things, if you want to ensure that the job is well done, do it yourself or entrust it to someone you know really well and trust; otherwise it is really the blind leading the blind."

actually makes a lot of sense to me, what do others think?

OP posts:
kks · 17/04/2007 13:31

Babys grandparents play a big role in babysitting mine. I am very lucky and i know that, my parner has a bakery and am the filler in when someones off.

FloatingLikeALeadBalloon · 17/04/2007 13:31

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GooseyLoosey · 17/04/2007 13:34

This an a higly emotive subject because every parent wants to feel they are doing the best for their child and when people adopt such polarised view points it seems logical that one side of the debate must be wrong and therefore failing their children.

This is not the case, there is not one golden way in which families work but many different ones depending on the individuals and circumstances involved.

I work. I had pnd after the birth of my first child and frankly do not think I could have survived if I had not had something to do outside of the family. It is therefore in my children's interests that I work. I do not aspire to provide them with Sky boxes or foriegn holidays but a happy relaxed home in which mum is not climbing the walls. This works for us and me being a sahm would not work whatever financial help was on offer.

My children go to nursery. There are some things that nursery may not provide that I could (eg lots of one on one emotional support) however there is lots of things that it does provide and on balance I am happy that my children are getting the best out of life that I as an individual can provide them with.

To suggest I do not know them or how childcare should work is absurd. I think of my children day and night and am more tuned in to their moods than anyone on the planet - I have known them since the minute they were born. I do care for them every day, but for 8 hours of 3 days a week, I delegate that care to someone else, this still makes me the expert in their care!

preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:34

panicpants you have got me all wrong.

I'll leave it at that, I'm not into slagging matches.

kks · 17/04/2007 13:36

I'd like mine to go to some sort of playgroup when she's a toddler so she can mix with other kids.

anniemac · 17/04/2007 13:38

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preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:40

floating that is another area where I feel the government should encourage/(force!?) employers to provde flexible working conditions for mums and dads with kids at school.

the more people that go for it the better, I'm sure it wont be long before we start to see these kind of changes, at least I hope not.

it makes such good sense to the majority (I'm sure there will be a few exceptions)

well put goosy

PeachyChocolateEClair · 17/04/2007 13:40

One of the upsides of Dh working nights (the only one, probably tbh) is that he can do the school pick up on the 2 days I am at Uni next term- I can drop off as he is in bed. Its a bit haphazard and not idea (some days he won't get more than 7 hours sleep and have to face a long night shift of 12 hours shortly after) but it kinda works. Once I am on my PGCE / working I'll need a Cm or school club (our school doesn't offer one). DS3 goes to a CM who picks up at the school when I drop the other 2, and then she drops him off at his pre-school. She's fabulous and really anhances his life- he has Sn at a fairly significant level (at 3.9 still extremely limtes speech / interaction- ASD) and she is involved in his assessments, statementing etc for us. Should we not get the LEA help he needs next year, she will ahve him instead, she's willing to do that for us (combined with me 3 days a week) and personally I feel it would be the best arrangement- as he is a July baby no obligation tos tart school until year after.

I am fortunate as Uni pays 85% of my childcare fees.

contentiouscat · 17/04/2007 13:47

Sorry Peachy you are NOT letting your children down not having those things...they are perceived as necessities but arent at all.

Good god Anniemac you havent been here long if that is the most patronising bigoted thing you have seen on Mumsnet (perhaps because its closer to home for you you CARE more but we have all seen FAR more offensive things) I really cant believe of all the things I said that is the one which keeps being rehashed tbh it was said as a semi-selfderogitory joke - It was said at 21.27 yesterday - I have explained it numerous times so now I can only assume you either havent read the whole thing or just want to have a go. If you really want to be offended then please go ahead - glad to have obliged.

Maybe this is why there will be no solution to this problem - instead of discussing it in a calm and intelligent fashion it becomes a SAHM v WOHM slanging match - so much for sisterly support

preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:47

anniemac I know a few people like that.

and no, it's not ever that simple, but I did say 'some people'

would you not agree that it is a bit strange that the government are able to 'throw money' as you say, to someone else to look after your child and top up low income, but not to 'throw money' to parents to be able to afford to look after their own children?

I am referring to the milions of people who recieve tc and childcare payments.

(am more than happy for ou to put the spotlight on my finances if you are interested anniemac)

NKffffffffee0f7f95X1118efd8f2d · 17/04/2007 13:49

There seems to be so many assumptions underlying this argument. Just a few that stick out to me.

  1. that working is nearly always a choice not a necessity.
  2. that mothers who work don't look after their children
  3. that the extra money is only used to pay for oversesas holidays and never music lessons, sports activities, theatre trips or books
  4. that women don't really like work. They only do it for the money.
  5. that mothers who don't work are hausfraus
  6. that mothers who don't work are sad and needy

I'm sure I could think of others. Of course not everyone thinks all of them at the same time (a feat beyond even the Red Queen) but they all seem erroneous to me.

Seriously in real life, do people find the worlds of working/not working so polarised? Don't people have friends and family who've made different choioes? I don't recognise the world these arguments seem to epitomise.

kks · 17/04/2007 13:54

Can i just say as my partner is a small business owner, it is extremly difficult to do flexable working hours to parents. I am not throwing judgement at anyone but the flexible hours work well in big componys but is very difficult to a small employer.

preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:54

nkfffeee...
I think those assumption only exist in the heads of those who see this as an 'us verses them' debate.

I don't assume any of those things, but as someone has said, it is a difficult subject to 'get-real' about because there is so much guilt attached to parenting anyway.

IF ONLY people could stop taking things out of context and getting so personal or defensive (ie. re the hamster comment lol!)
then we might all pull together to help make some changes.

(for those who feel no changes are needed then please ignore my previous comment)

GooseyLoosey · 17/04/2007 13:57

Can I reiterate, I CHOOSE to work. I have absolutely no doubts that this is the best thing for my children. Not in material terms but in terms of having a balanced happy mummy who is not screaming all the time!

preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:57

kks it is difficult to imagine flexible work in some cases such as yours, and perhaps impossible? but that shouldnt stop anyone who can. starting with the big govenment employers, nhs civil servants etc for example.

when that attitude becomes a culture then it should make things easier for everyone.

NKffffffffee0f7f95X1118efd8f2d · 17/04/2007 13:58

I don't see it as "us versus them" either. I don't see how anyone could to be honest. I don't see what the desired outcome of such a fight could be.

preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 13:58

that is totally fair enough goosy, it's only your decision.

kks · 17/04/2007 13:59

I don't see this as a 'us v them' debate. I think whatever works best for you is the choice you should make. Fuck what anyone thinks about it, as long as you know your children are healthy and well looked after then it shouldn't matter the the opinion of the world is.

anniemac · 17/04/2007 14:01

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anniemac · 17/04/2007 14:02

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NKffffffffee0f7f95X1118efd8f2d · 17/04/2007 14:04

Do people think that men ever do this to each other. Dads with jobs. Do they look askance at other men with children and think: "He never takes his kids to the football" or "I bet he's never read a bedtime story" or "What a wimp, I bet he's changed a nappy." Maybe men do judge each other as fathers but I've certainly never heard them say so. Do any of them feel guilty about the hours they worked or some perceived failing?

contentiouscat · 17/04/2007 14:05

Preggerspoppet - my point exactly some women HAVE to work to keep the wolf from the door but would rather be with their children.

Incidentally I dont think there is right or wrong in SAHM/WOHM debate despite some focussing on one comment and magnifiying it - different strokes for different folks as long as you and your child are happy then do it...just accept that other folks choose to live their life a different way.

On the definition of Luxury incidentially I never mentioned mortgage/rent surely this is a necessity?

NorksBride · 17/04/2007 14:06
preggerspoppet · 17/04/2007 14:08

anniemac, I often get wound up on these threads by xenia, so I know how you feel, but please know that I am not out to make mothers feel bad or slag off anyone elses decision.

You agree that some people do not have a choice, but do you also really beleive that nothing can/should be done about that?

I beleive we can change that.

parents are a pretty large group in society.

contentiouscat · 17/04/2007 14:09

I like hamsters I dont think I did myself a diservice at all - agree to disagree.