What should trans people actually do?

[BTT]

I'm making the assumption that gender identity exists and that there can be a mismatch between it and sex which will likely cause distress and a desire for trans people to find a safer and more comfortable place in society somehow.

I'm talking about practical measures to minimize problems for trans and non-trans people. Please respond only if you have some reasonable ideas.

Violent 'cis' men TPA? Is that men in trousers?
A poster above cited the TW saying they use the mens' loos without any problem whatsoever. Frankly, I think most men would ignore a TW anyway.

As stated many times, women want privacy and dignity away from the male gaze, in any female space. It's not all about toilets ffs.
All men, however they are dressed.

Well I'm shocked that the OP hasn't returned unless of course this is already in trans Reddit

I don't know any trans people or at least if I do I don't know they are trans which I assume would be their object. I think there is a big difference between a man dressing as a woman to access female spaces and potentially assault women or girls and a trans person who the last thing they want is to be perceived as a man and do not find women sexually attractive.

Why is it women's job to sort this? Did we have a vote I don't remember agreeing to anything I have kids dogs and elderly parents and a husband I don't really want any more responsibility

I don't have a gender ID.

Why won't trans people leave me alone?

Style themselves however they choose.

If they are adults work with their doctors to get whatever cosmetic procedures they choose. I may not like that our society supports things like face lifts and Botox, but that it is the modern world. People are allowed to engage in body modification to their wallets constraints.

Be a part of society as we revisit historical decisions to segregate some things by sex. It turns out some things don’t really matter and some are important.

Hopefully be well rounded people. The most interesting trans people I know, being trans is not a huge part of their identity.

Absolutely.
And if trans-women aka men would keep their biologically male bodies out of female only spaces there would be no issue. Or pearl clutching.

dress how they feel comfortable
change their name if they want
live your life broadly as you see fit

avoid medicalisation because it appears to have a lot of side effects that are not trivial - male or female

remain aware that you have a disconnect in your head / body and that will cause you some inconvenience in life. We all have things that cause us inconvenience- I can’t shop at any time of day I want because the crowds get too much. That’s a me problem so I adapt.

so sport - stick to open categories. Activities that are none competitive. Go rock climbing but don’t enter the wrong sex competition. Changing rooms - probably disabled , family or other sex neutral if the right sex is too traumatic. Toilets. Plan your day. Many cafes only have one toilet so go there not M&S.

don’t try to direct other people to do or say anything they feel is wrong. Don’t prioritise your feelings and desires over anyone elses.

campaign for the things you need. But don’t expect support if you “need” validation from lesbians.

Read the guidance and the SCJ. All provided for. Its not a problem.

Not sure why you think it's women's problem to explain (again) if you haven't seen this.

BTT

I'm making the assumption that gender identity exists and that there can be a mismatch between it and sex which will likely cause distress and a desire for trans people to find a safer and more comfortable place in society somehow

Just to note, you may not realise but that is a manipulative and closed-ended way to frame your question. You are basically saying all the reasons why trans people might not be given exatly what they are asking for, or at least why it can very reasonably be questioned, are out of scope.

It's like saying "I'd like to talk about how we best accomodate psychic healers in the NHS, but before we discuss that I just want to make it clear that I'm making the assumption psychic healing exists and is effective and has a place in the NHS so I'm only going to consider suggestions that start from that assumption".

(Note to Genderists - while you may not like the psychic healing analogy, be aware I rejected a lot of possibly stronger ones that I felt could be seen as provocative. I've landed on psychic healing because there is no connotation of deliberate harm, many have a deep belief in it, many people say they have genuinely experienced it, it has been a topic of serious scientific studies, and it has appeared in different forms in most human cultures)

A more honest version of your question would be

IF gender identity exists and IF there can be a mismatch between it and sex which will likely cause distress and a desire for trans people to find a safer and more comfortable place in society somehow, what should such trans people actually do?

I'm talking about IF this was true, what practical measures could be taken to minimize problems for trans and non-trans people. Please respond only if you have some reasonable ideas.

I believe you were going to share your foolproof method for telling the ‘cis men ‘ from the transwomen, given your absolute confidence in identifying’ ‘cis men’

I am again once again confused by your use of ‘us’ in terms of including yourself in the category ‘women’. Are you no longer non-binary? If transwomen are women (and always have been) by virtue of their gender identity, then you aren’t a woman. Your rules.

It's a tad cheeky, if utterly unsurprising, to try to dictate the content of a thread by requesting only reasonable (to you) responses and then contribute.....nothing.

Please don't bother telling me that I'm in a cult because my kid knew from an early age, long before he got internet access, that he was trans.

If that's the case with your child, your child has a very different experience from mine. Mine did not express any hint of "gender incongruence" or "gender dysphoria" until much later on, after he had been bathed in gender identity thinking for years. Either way, my son is male and that can't be changed. The idea that it's necessary to change some aspects of his body is a very novel one, and it's hard to believe that he would have thought of that for himself without the incessant voices whispering in his ear that something is wrong with him and needs to be altered.

Let's just focus on one aspect of this TPA

a) they're women
No they aren't. You know this as well as anyone, enough with the lying.

b) I don't want them.meeting a mob of violent cis men in the Gents and getting assaulted
If this is happening, go tackle the problem of violent men in the Gents. This is not women's problem to solve

c) it's cis men who assault is in toilets
It's men. No need for a made up descriptor

e) cubicles exist
Guess what? They exist in the men's too

f) all.wo!an are harmed by dividing us by sight & deciding who's female.
No. Women are harmed because men have broken the social contract and infiltrated their spaces. Mother nature 'decides who's female', take it up with her.

Strangely, no one gave a shit about the women who would self exclude from their own single sex provision if men were also using them. I haven’t see any hand wringing about them.

Single sex spaces are separated on the basis of sex not sexual orientation. HTH.

Wow. I hadn't put that together before. That is indeed very - inconsistent.

I would start by asking what aspects of gender identity differs from plain old sex role stereotypes. There is never an answer to this.

I would then suggest a short practical session on why sexism and sex role stereotyping is unhealthy, impacts negatively on both sexes and oppresses women in particular.

I'm making the assumption that gender identity exists

Sorry, I need to stop you right there. Gender identity doesn't exist it's just a made up thing like having a soul is a made up thing. As you are starting from a false premise the rest of your OP is irrelevant.

Some people want to abuse drugs to alter their appearance. When it's bodybuilders abusing drugs to alter their appearance we criminalise it. Bizarrely Genderists think that it's right & normal for teenage girls to abuse the same drugs to alter their appearance or allow pervy middle aged men to take oestrogen so they can sprout tits.

f) all.wo!an are harmed by dividing us by sight & deciding who's female.

I'm slightly confused by this comment. Where does this leave trans identifying men who are clearly male? No more at risk than any other man who might be considered to be in a vulnerable group? Is there a bit of consensus here?

Stop blaming transwomen for male violence

Why? They're men. They're as violent as other men are.

Live freely and wholeheartedly in the gender presentation that works for you.

Acknowledge that sex is not the same as gender, and sex never changes, so don't use anything single-sex that has been designated for the opposite sex. Use unisex and fully-enclosed single-user facilities and campaign for more provision of unisex and fully-enclosed single-user facilities to be installed alongside single-sex facilities anywhere where such things don't already exist. (We will support such campaigns alongside you). Participate in sports either within the category for your own sex, or in an "open" or unisex category - other participants in those sports are not tools for you to use to demand affirmation.

Understand that disagreement is not the same as hatred. People existing near you who don't believe the same things about gender identity as you do does not make you "unsafe" and is not "denying your right to exist" - people who do not believe you are a member of the sex you present as can and should nevertheless uphold your human rights and respect your dignity and personal choices. Your human rights do not include requiring people to agree with you.

Make whatever cosmetic changes you wish to your own body with your own funds after a careful process that is in your best interests to establish whether it really will improve your ability to accept yourself. These should never happen before the age of 25 because the human brain is still developing before this point and you cannot know where that development will take you. Almost zero cosmetic surgeries should be funded by the taxpayer - with very very limited exceptions where the bar should be extremely high (as it is with all other cosmetic surgeries which are very rarely funded on the NHS) for extremely strong evidence that it is appropriate. We do not treat anorexia with liposuction - theraputic support to help you to accept your body as it is, with no implication that this should make you choose differently in terms of your gender presentation, is almost always a more appropriate treatment.

Protect gender non-conforming and homosexual kids from the harms of puberty blockers. A very very few trans adults might genuinely have been helped by recieving these drugs when they were young but a huge number of the kids taking them are not in the same category and would have grown up into balanced, healthy, self-accepting homosexual adults if allowed to do so without being told their feelings are wrong for their sex. The harms done by the drugs being prescribed when they weren't appropriate (stunting intellectual development, damaging fertility, destroying the capacity for sexual pleasure and causing lifelong medical issues) outweigh many times over the harms done in the cases where they could have been beneficial but weren't. Research needs to focus on identifying how to tell the difference as early as possible - this research could be done with longitudinal studies that do not require giving any harmful drugs to kids until rigorous evidence has been generated for how to identify the minority of cases when it might help.

Who can forget the time a non binary person borrowed a book from the library, and all hell was let loose.

Everyone was so outraged, it made the news.