What should trans people actually do?

[BTT]

I'm making the assumption that gender identity exists and that there can be a mismatch between it and sex which will likely cause distress and a desire for trans people to find a safer and more comfortable place in society somehow.

I'm talking about practical measures to minimize problems for trans and non-trans people. Please respond only if you have some reasonable ideas.

Use the single sex services for their actual sex.
Stop behaving like entitled head cases.
Dress appropriately for the situation you are putting yourself in.

Is that the sort of dilemma you want solving OP?

They can do whatever anyone of their biological sex can do. Simple.

Understand that "man" and "woman" are not types of personality, and allow themselves to be who they are entirely, accepting both their bodies and their minds as having always been ok.

If that means more mixed sex spaces, go for it.

But please abandon the language that places beliefs about dress, personality or feelings on top of the words "men" and "women", because it's basically saying some really sexist things about everyone else and that's not ok. I wish trans people and their allies would see that long as they use that language they will keep getting pushback, not because they are trans but because that language is sexist.

People are allowed to use their own names, love.

Public toilets are entirely public spaces, completely unsafe unless we have company. And I welcome trans women in, because a) they're women, b) I don't want them.meeting a mob of violent cis men in the Gents and getting assaulted, c) it's cis men who assault is in toilets, both trans women, e) cubicles exist, and f) all.wo!an are harmed by dividing us by sight & deciding who's female.

Deadname is just a word, calling it 'male' is ridiculous.

"Compel speech" - you mean, be polite? Respectful? I've met a lot of people who think being forced to stop calling Black men 'boy' is compelled.speech and who insist they should be allowed to be homophobic. Deliberately disrespecting trans people is no different.

Verbal respect for difference is the first step to preventing discrimination and violence. Every single minority which gained legal protection has had the same struggles as trans people.

Stop blaming trans women for male violence.

You put what I wanted to say so concisely and politely.

Its all a bit 'Mum will sort this out' and, sorry, no Mum is busy right now.

Big assumption. I would suggest that "gender identity" is a made-up concept with external causes. It's not something innate, like sexuality. I can understand that there are some people who feel uncomfortable in their bodies, but that's because of psychological and social reasons or trauma, not because there is anything wrong with their body. As others have said, identifying as trans is more of a mental health issue and therefore needs to be approached as a mental health issue, with therapy. There's also the fact that to identify as "trans" or "nonbinary" is the current trendy thing for people who want to be seen as "interesting" or "special".

Even if you believe that "gender identity" is real, it's irrelevant to biological sex. However much surgery they have or pharmaceuticals they take, people who identify as trans do not change sex. Activities such as sports, toilets, changing rooms are separated according to sex, not gender identity. Identifying as trans is no excuse for you to use the facilities of the other sex.

People with genuine psychological distress should get therapy. The pervs can get lost. The trendies will eventually fade away as the next fad takes over. If wearing stereotypical clothing of the other sex makes those with gender dysphoria feel better, then let them. That doesn't mean they have changed sex and, hence, should stay in the spaces reserved for their own sex or use alternative spaces that are not sex specific, as the new EHRC guidance stipulates.

"Stop blaming trans women for male violence."

Transwomen are male. They are as capable of male violence as any other male.

Do you believe the female - simple, biological meaning - half of humanity is significant enough in its own right to have a name in its own right even if that excludes transwomen, or not?

Do you believe the history of the female - simple, biological meaning - half of humanity, of what happened to us and often still does happen to us beause of our bodies and because of the sexist ideas that society constructs about us, is significant enough in its own right to be written and spoken about clearly even if that excludes transwomen, or not?

as well.as discouraging the horrific, often daily violence trans people - especially trans children - are forced to endure.

Link to back up your statement please @TransParentlyAnnoyed

Stop blaming trans women for male violence

Violence committed by transwomen is indeed male violence. Tell men to stop being violent however they identify.

😂

Same as they are already - getting on with their lives, attending school when they can, finding work, falling in love, having kids, caring, going to gigs, borrowing books from the library, doing housework and drinking tea (other beverages are available).

well if only that was all, it would be relatively easy...
if 'trans people' got on with normal life - and didn't feel a need to disrupt women's meetings / invade women's spaces / offer death threats / be violent and vile to those they want to intimidate... of course that is not all - but any one such incident is more than is acceptable.

as well.as discouraging the horrific, often daily violence trans people - especially trans children - are forced to endure

funny how there seems to be so little evidence of this - and when it is eventually exposed it is that someone used a 'wrong' pronoun - 'literal violence' I think that is described as - despite the twisted logic and grammar in such a statement.

yet - we see daily people threatening death and splintery rolling pins etc. against those whose only 'crime' is to stand up for truth, and protecting the more vulnerable.

Because being trans is normal. It's a small part of their lives.

being 'trans' by definition is not the normal - it is the move away from the norm - the norm is that you are born male or female, realise that you can't change and get on with being your shape of male or female - being 'trans' is a very small minority of people some of whom are genuinely confused, others of whom are on a power trip, some of whom have mental health issues - none of them sit in the 'norm' though.

Acceptance of a child is normal

Absolutely - encouraging that child to be something they can never be is not. Standing by while individuals, organisations and even nations decide to abuse children through surgery and hormones is absolutely not normal - as has been said on here many times this is our country's biggest scandal and shame waiting to be realised...

I can't give you anything useful OP as I don't believe gender identity exists at all, so I'm coming at it from the diametrically opposite position from you.

It would be good if so-callled transpeople just got on with their lives and, where sex is an issue, they acknowledged that and behaved accordingly.

Yeah good luck with that

all froth no facts

You just don't get that transwomen are men, TPA.
I understand that., you make that abundantly clear.

But unless you do some fancy footwork about 'sociological sex' or 'female brain' or 'feminine essence' or 'wrong body', you are on the wrong side of observable scientific fact.

Maybe that's why you always come with with your studs showing, as they say in footie - always cranked up to 11 and calling people 'love' or 'tiresome' or 'fake-outraged' or worse, because you know you don't have anything else to back up your points.

You have the patience of an actual saint

St Marie of the talk boards

public toilets are public spaces - split for specific sub-sets of that public - the gents for the chaps, and the ladies for the women - even a toddler can understand that differentiation.

There is no reason for a man to be in the women's loos - it isn't a discussion or debate, it is fact and it is law - if set aside to be single sex then that means men in the gents and women in the ladies.

a) 'trans women' are not women - they are men - by definition.
b) there are no mobs of violent men in the gents - it is a complete fallacy with no evidence to back it up.
c)it is men who assault women in toilets (cis is not a type of man or woman) and 'trans women' are men - and statistically assault women at the same or higher rate than men generally - another reason for not having them in the ladies
d) seems to be missing
e) cubicles are irrelevant - the whole of the loos are women's space - men should keep out.
f) all women are harmed statistically nearly 100% of the time by men - it is not difficult to tell the difference and females are those born as girls who stay girls because you can't change.

'trans women' have provided enough evidence to show that they are very capable of and willing to use violence for their ends.

'trans women' are male, so any violence they display will be 'male violence'

They should be realistic and not be affirmed and yassed by misguided or financially unscrupulous people into believing that they can actually be women or change sex.

Other than that, dress how they want, behave how they want, have sex with whichever willing participants but accept that they are male men and stay out of women's spaces and stop appropriating women's biological reality pretending they can have periods etc. And stop hiding behind old ideas of homphhobia and feeling unsafe in the men's toilets. Most men, and certainly nearly all young men, cgaf if a man walks in wearing a dress or makeup.

I would expect behaviour similar to that for any other group that holds a belief (be that gender identity or religion) that not everyone shares. They should realize that they cannot force others to believe in gender identity and should not see it as a personal affront if others refuse to pretend that they do. In contrast, society in general should be more tolerant of people who do not feel at ease in their own skin for whatever reason.

Abso bloody lutely @MarieDeGournay

😇
If you were St Bernard of the Talk Boards, you'd have a little cask of brandy around your neck and it would come in very handy as a much-needed restorative😁

Psychiatric, psychological and medical evaluation to identify the underlying cause of gender dysphoria is imperative. So that the correct treatment plan can be accessed. Is the cause mental health issues,phyiscial issues,cultural and social pressures,internalised homophobia?
After which the person realises they can never change their sex but feels presenting themselves in a sterotypical way of the opposite sex make them more comfortable,so be it ,drugs and surgical procedures only when adult after full and frank counselling about the pros and cons. What they cant do is access the single sex spaces of the opposite sex (because that infringes on the rights of others) or force others to believe or treat them for all purposes as the opposite sex.

Revisit their GCSE biology and see how it applies to them.

Indulge in some critical thinking and examine what events in their life led them to the belief that they could actually change sex.

The fortitude to recognise that they were sold an ideology which is impossible to achieve and that they can admit they were wrong and then return to their previous life before the cult took hold of them.

I don't want them.meeting a mob of violent cis men in the Gents

I’ve been sending my sons into the gents since they were 8 years old. Thus far no mobs of violent men, cis or otherwise encountered

lunacy

People are allowed to use their own names, love.
Condescendingly addressing someone as "love" is just signalling that actually you have no respect for the people you interract with on here. One word that speaks volumes.

Accepting biological reality is a good start.