What should trans people actually do?

[BTT]

I'm making the assumption that gender identity exists and that there can be a mismatch between it and sex which will likely cause distress and a desire for trans people to find a safer and more comfortable place in society somehow.

I'm talking about practical measures to minimize problems for trans and non-trans people. Please respond only if you have some reasonable ideas.

My reasonable idea would be to approach some trans people and ask them to come up with ideas that don't encroach on the rights of women and girls to resolve their own problems

Trans people should recognise that they can not change sex, and that sex matters in many situations.

If necessary they should have counselling to help them come to terms with this.

They should use facilities and services meant for their sex, not the sex they want to be.

Trans people should ask themselves what aspects of their identified gender are important to them - is it the clothes they wish to wear, the personality they wish to express, the career they want to follow? - and what stops them adopting these aspects. Then they should campaign for acceptance, particularly from other people of their own sex, of these aspects. Eg, a man who wishes to wear makeup and a dress should focus on how to make this meet less resistance from other men. Maybe a campaign of posters in male toilets about letting any man, however he presents, use them unmolested might be part of that.

If the aspects they care about are appropriating the spaces, services or reality perception of the opposite sex, they should seek non-affirming psychotherapy.

What sex of trans person are you talking about? I am finding more and more that referrring to 'trans people' actually means they are talking about natal men (the bepenised kind) and natal women (the cunty kind) are not on the radar.

They need to accept they have the same rights as everybody else and not more. This means they have the right to work, rent/buy a house, to marry, not be harassed for being different.

They do not have the right to insist others use their language, or to let them use facilities for the opposite sex. They need to understand that because someone says no it doesn't constitute a hate crime, or that others should lose their jobs or reputation because they refuse to use different pronouns etc

They need to understand that sex matters especially in a medical situation or single sex areas, and that not recognising sex is actually harmful to them, to others around them, and to society in general.

What do you think they should do or shouldn't do?

Keep out of spaces that are for the opposite sex.
Present how they wish.
Don't compel other's speech.
Fight for their own spaces which don't impact on others.

It's not that difficult 🤷‍♀️

They are going to have to find ways to manage their mental health issues without encroaching on the rights of women and girls.

dress how they please, but when it comes to services and sports they need to accept the sex they are or use gender neutral options.

Gender identity only exists for a very small number of people, the rest of us realise that biological sex exists for everyone, that it is extremely important in most areas of life, particularly medical care and ensuring that everyone, especially girls and women get to enjoy safe, single sex spaces and activities such as sport.

They should campaign for third spaces and trans specific services rather than trying to take women’s.

they should leave children alone and stop campaigning for irreversible medial treatment that causes lifelong damage to children.

I don't believe in gender ideology so you're asking me what should people unhappy with the reality of their sexed bodies do.

I'd say get some exploratory therapy - not affirmative, that won't help.

If you say, they're not unhappy - no gender dysphoria, they just like wearing certain clothes and make up then I say - no problem , crack on.

If you say they're only unhappy when you tell them reality is real and that they can't force others to change their words and behaviour to suit them - I say 'That's life, your beliefs are only yours and you should expect disagreement'

If you say 'Be kind and let them make themselves happy by moving aside and letting them take your spaces, sports and safety' I say 'sod off'

The OP won't make any suggestions. They're probably just gathering posts on how mean everyone is.

Do - whatever any other man or woman does...
Deal with life and all the complexities it brings - without expecting everyone else in the world to stop and step back to allow you precedence...

The simple reality is that those who are 'trans' fall into one of several camps - each of which has a different route ahead...

• there are those who are genuinely confused and this is a thing of the moment which might have some answers to questions they don't really know how to articulate... (e.g. might be teenage autistic girls) - this might be as simple as normal adolescent confusion and can be dealt with like that
• there are those who have genuine body dysmorphia where they have a in the head disconnect of some type between their actual body / sex and the emotions / thoughts / etc. they have - this is a mental health issue and needs dealing with under that umbrella
• there are those who are playing games - power / sexual deviancy / etc. - and those need to be told 'NO'

but in all of those - society needs to build that framework - of support or barrier as appropriate, and while so much is captivated by 'being kind' little constructive will take place...

society needs to put in firm boundaries

• chopping up children or poisoning them with hormones = child abuse
• sexual deviancy is just that - a perversion you keep to your home, or is banned
• mental health issues are worthy of compassion

Absolutely.
I don't care if people announce they're trans but I do care about the safety and dignity of women and girls.

Well yes. They won't make any more posts.

Very good point.
The changing rooms, loos etc are separated based on sex, not gender.

What's keeping trans women out of men's toilets and impacting them negatively elsewhere? Male violence? If so then perhaps what is needed is a concentrated campaign against male violence with the same or greater energy as they oppose women asserting sex-based rights.

(We might guess that a reason this doesn't happen is because a lot of them actually identify more with men, even the violent ones, than they do with women - and some of them are actually violent themselves.)

They would probably also benefit from seeking psychological treatment rather than jumping straight to transition (and campaigning for such treatment to be available when it isn't). The fact that thirty years ago psychological treatment was ineffective isn't relevant as back then only the most serious cases presented themselves to doctors, and psychological techniques probably weren't as advanced anyway. Less serious cases of gender dysphoria are often not permanent and there needs to be more recognition of that.

What's keeping trans women out of men's toilets and impacting them negatively elsewhere?

Nothing - other than a desire to be in the women's spaces to validate their claim to be women.

A repeated challenge has been to show evidence of violence by anyone against 'trans women' and so far - no evidence...

There is I believe a 'trans woman' who goes on record in showing how safe he is in men's loos - with something like 1,000 recorded uses with no issue...

I recommend young trans people watch a load of old episodes of Top Of The Pops from the 80s. They might learn that dressing in a non-conforming way used to be called having a personality. Being young and experimenting with your appearance used to be very cheap as well as enormous fun; and an entirely normal and healthy way of sticking it to The Man.

There is an old interview with a very young David Bowie being interviewed by some RP speaking old stuffed shirt who expresses shock and disbelief at males with long hair. Some people still need it explaining that men with long hair are.....men with long hair.

Recognising that one cannot change sex would be a start; and then appreciating why sex actually matters in certain types of situation, particularly for women and girls.

Beyond that.......crack on......but don't expect extra special or different treatment to those that don't identify as trans. We all have the same basic civil rights as each other, though some groups have additional protections that recognise particular areas of vulnerability, or specific requirement.

They can accept wanting to dress or act a certain way doesn’t change facts. They can wear what they like, call themselves what they like, but they can’t, and shouldn’t, change the world around them. They should respect single sex spaces, and should not expect people to believe they are a woman or man just because they wish to be.

Not deceive prospective sexual partners as to their own natal sex. Keep out of single sex spaces for the opposite sex. Don't compel speech. Don't use the very male term 'deadname'.

Other than that, whatever takes their fancy wrt clothes, hair, presentation.

They should admit their trans and sell services for trans

Campaign for more unisex provision.

They should just get on with their lives - go to work, socialise, shop, pay bills etc etc. (As most do tbh)

They should understand and accept the difference between gender identity and biological sex.

So, wear whatever you want, be called whatever you want, live however you want, but don't demand a cervical smear if you are a biological male, don't demand people agree that biological sex means nothing and that feelings can change a y chromosome to an x chromosome or vice versa. Be realistic and understand that life is about balancing everyone's needs rather than one group demanding theirs must be everyone's priority in every situation.

Accept that not prioritising your wants over everyone else's at all times is not the same thing as hating you and wanting you dead, and that not all spaces are your spaces.

There is a transwoman I think has a good balance, her name is alexis blake. I watch a lot of her stuff on YouTube.

Same as they are already - getting on with their lives, attending school when they can, finding work, falling in love, having kids, caring, going to gigs, borrowing books from the library, doing housework and drinking tea (other beverages are available).

it's anti-trans people who need to decide if they're going to stop clutching their pearls every time a trans person does the above.

Because being trans is normal. It's a small part of their lives.

If only tiresome, fake-outraged people would stop objecting every time a trans/nb person or Pride Progress flag was found to exist (e.g. in a school, online, on TV, at work, on the street) them that would be grand. Would improve their lives no end too, as well.as discouraging the horrific, often daily violence trans people - especially trans children - are forced to endure.

If they could leave their beaks out of the decisions trans people made about the bodies ,and leave medicine to doctors, that'd help too.

...well, as if. This forum is devoted to "trans person seen!" and " oh no, a solitary non-binary child is in my school, emergency! " threads, as well as many, many "this is why I think They exist" conspiracy theories. Leaving a cult is a process, rather than a single act. But please try. There are so many better causes than fretting about what other people's children do with their fringes.

(P.s. Please don't bother telling me that I'm in a cult because my kid knew from an early age, long before he got internet access, that he was trans. Acceptance of a child is normal, obsessing about a minority you may never even meet and clearly do not understand, is not. Have a lovely day all.)