terrifying, dangerous, abusive "advice" on r/transgenderuk

[mardirousse]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1vo4oqz/hypothetical_situation/.

Dad wants to prevent his effeminate 15 year old boy from developing an adam's apple or deep voice, so "hypothetically" asks if he could back and forth to France for puberty blockers.

gets loads of "support", told he's a wonderful father, advised to put the lad on diy estrogen instead as it's more appropriate "at that age" (15!).

Surely platforms can't allow this, legally! it's so dangerous. I'm really upset. His poor little lad.

Desperate stuff, this.

The kid's own mother blames the dad.

Historical records are always an area for caution but I think it is ridiculous to believe that there were no trans people before the first recorded male to female trans surgery over 100 years ago.

This didn't spring out of nowhere it's always been around us. Society just used to lump all the men together as transvestite perverts and smile amusedly about the women dressing as men.

Christ almighty, that is absolutely horrendous.

All he wanted to do was play with the toys of his choice ffs.

But because his father couldn't cope with that, he ended up having his penis removed as a teenager.

We should all be up in arms at the sheer horror of this.

Gender non-conformity, fetishistic men, teenagers struggling with changes in their bodies, those with genuine dysphoria have all existed since the dawn of time.

Grouping these people under a 'trans' umbrella is a very recent phenomenon. It's a development that's extremely beneficial to one of these sub groups and extremely detrimental to everyone else.

I think the Molly Houses are fascinating in this respect. Gay men bonding over pretending to be women.

To me they are a perfect precursor of the contradictions of today's transgenderism.

A group of people who are on the one hand marginalised and rejected in society (gay men then, gender non-conforming men, albeit with very varied reasons behind that non-conformance, now) adopt womanhood as their metaphor and an escape, but in so doing, they are treating "women" as simply of homogenous character or social role without individual differentiation or value, basically playing out their own society's misogyny and belittling of women.

Their awareness of the unfairness of their own situation does not give them any insight that there might be a similar gap between society's image of "the woman" and how those humans who are women (adult human females) see themselves.

No he didn't, he was a nice happy little boy.

He asked his granny to buy him some dolls for his birthday and not tell his parents as they had taken his toys away.

Has the video of Susie and her mum laughing about his underdeveloped genitals on a tv show been deleted too?

No, that’s still around. https://x.com/ajatheempress/status/1681725992300101645?s=46&t=24c39_JwRrH3k0oebVKtWw

The aliens one is interesting. I think we do have historical evidence of people who think they encountered aliens. But they didn't call them aliens, they called them fairies or angels or whatever other unearthly beings their particular culture talked about.

The appropriate response is to ask, "What do these people have in common? What led them to make that claim? Is it an outer (environmental) or an inner (brain) experience, or a psychological tendency, and of what kind?"
And also: "Is it a single phenomenon or is more than one kind of experience/behaviour being included in the data?"

Instead, often, it's "See? People have always encountered aliens, they just didn't know what they were." (Which assumes that the particular current cultural - or rather countercultural - framing is the truth of the matter.)

I don't know why, but even as it adds to my argument, I decided not to include that little snippet in my posts. I find it so fucking abhorrent.

But you're right. It needs pointing out.

That poor fucking child. I really hope people don't forget.

And if anyone is wondering why this identity persisted into adulthood, for Jackie Green, take a look at him speaking a few years ago.

Nothing has persisted into 'adulthood'.

In my opinion, HQ.

What is this posting style that starts with a single word such as:

False.
Incorrect.
Wrong.

I find it very aggressive and rude. It’s like being poked in the chest with someone’s finger.
Is it male/American / Reddit style?

What’s wrong with whole sentences?

Your comparison isn't valid.

Transphobic people discussing puberty blockers are like antivaxxers discussing
covid.

Dismissing the experiences of trans children, the trans adults whose lives were improved by puberty blockers, doctors who give the treatment and their parents, isn't discussion.

Calling parents "abusive" for trying to save their children's lives, is not informed debate.

Obsessing about a very small minority of children themselves within a tiny minority repeatedly, is not science. It is aberrant behaviour.

Calling parents "abusive" for trying to save their children's lives, is not informed debate.

Persisting this suicide narrative is extremely dangerous.

What happened to hope? The old LGB slogan 'it gets better' - why on earth are you telling kids that they'll kill themselves if they don't get puberty blockers - do you know nothing about this?

You don't know if anybody's lives were improved by puberty blockers long term because you are only looking at people given puberty blockers and the immediate impact.

I'm not trans phobic, many of my posts annoy the gender critical because they are trans supportive. I am, though, absolutely against blocking the biological process which removes from most young people with body dysmorphia the drive to transition at all.

The reason many anti vaxxers discuss the covid 'vaccine' is because many of the covid 'vaccines' are not actually 'vaccines'.

• protein-based vaccines: these contain harmless fragments of proteins or protein shells that mimic the COVID-19 virus to safely generate an immune response; and
• mRNA vaccines: these are genetically engineered RNA which create proteins that safely activate an immune response.

Reference: the WHO.

The same way boys are not girls and never can be.

And it is NOT phobic to be wary of drugs that sterilise kids. It is perfectly normal to want kids to grow up and be fully fledged adults.

And for the parents that buy drugs off the internet to sterilise their kids that definitely IS ABUSE.

Fair enough, and thank you for that support. I'm in favour of blockers for those suitable to have them for the following reasons.

Puberty blockers have been repeatedly shown to be safe. A study last week showed they don't affect bone density in the long term.

The trans adults who have taken them report they pass better and experienced a much less traumatic adolescence than had they been forced through the wrong puberty.

Blockers provide time for a child to grow up and decide if they want to continue with life as a trans adult.

I have seen what happens to a trans child who is denied care and has to proceed with puberty. The combination of awful body dysmorphia and horrific bullying at school badly affects them at what's a crucial moment in their lives.

A survey of trans children report all have experienced this bullying and dysphoria. Along with exam pressure and the normal strains of growing up - well, you can guess the result. School refusal, exam failure, depression, anxiety, self-harming and suicide.

Every one of the surveyed children had suicidal ideation. This is the inevitable result of knowing there's treatment which could help you, but which has been denied.

There are more trans children requiring care now because more come out, simple as that really. They know who they are and don't want to hide it. The initial coming out brings them so much peace, and it is heartbreaking what follows.

I know trans children who have bought hormones off the Internet in desperation. I have spoken to the mums of trans children who killed themselves (who were hounded on social media, blamed for their children's deat-s - in one instance, those who attacked her threatened to disrupt her son's funeral).

Giving those who are suited to them puberty blockers won't just save lives. It will prevent the irreversible harm caused by self-harming and unregulated hormones.

And more: the end result of my son being denied treatment is that he's now going to have top surgery.

If he'd had blockers, that wouldn't now be on the cards. He wouldn't be wearing a binder every day, or likely have the physical and mental scars of those years.

Saving his life took everything I had. He is now finally free of school, but only scraped a few GCSEs after being predicted As. He is on dangerous anti-anxiety meds which I fret about him taking - when he forgets three doses he has significant hallucinations and feels very ill. He is going to slowly withdraw from them but I worry so much about the process.

The consequence of all this anti-trans activism has been to make lives like his miserable. It has enabled the bullying he suffered as an out trans boy (the only one in his school).

I wish he wasn't going to have the surgery. It will be so consequential and painful. But I completely understand it will make him happier - I've met enough content trans men to know this is the case.

There will be so much more top surgery as a result of this denial of care. I think that's awful.

Thank you for your support, it is a great comfort to me to know that there are decent people here. Apologies for the length of this.

We now have the medical capability to deny children access to puberty, a natural part of healthy human development.

Whether we should use it, and if so, in what circumstances, is not only a medical debate, it is an ethical debate about something human and fundamental that goes way beyond the needs and desires of particular individuals. It is not just a "trans issue".

Every human being has the right to speak about it.

For her child being trans?

Don't be stupid - no she doesn't.

You are in the most impossible bind as a parent, I wish you both well. My experience is that your child will have a better chance of future contentedness as female to male than male to female. I have only limited experience but I only know unhappy looking male to female but my one close experience of female to male was of a person who seemed quite happy in their own skin.

My post referring to a made up word ('suicidality') is deleted because I site this grammatical obfuscation within the wider problem it reflects, yet the original piece remains despite its author advocating child manipulation and abuse.
Just wow.

How could Jackie Green possibly desist even if he wanted to?

He is a poster boy for his mother’s work and had surgery to remove his male genitalia at a very, very young age. His support networks are almost certainly 100% affirming that he has changed sex.

Psychologically, these are immensely complicated barriers to any change of mind, even if he harbours any regrets.

Is he working and functioning as a happy adult, living independently away from his parents? Does he have a loving partner? I hope so.

They removed the genitals of young men for a couple of main reasons:

1. To create loyal servants who could not father children and therefore would be no challenge to a ruling dynasty. They were also trusted to guard the women in the harem or equivalent.
2. To create castrated boys who would develop powerful high singing voices for the opera when they grew up (castrati).

Not because the young boys believed they were girls. I don’t think the young boys in question had a great deal of say in it.

The situation is, TransParentlyAnnoyed , you know some young people with gender dysphoria who reacted as you describe; I know other young people with gender dysphoria who reacted differently and became reconciled to their natal sex, and went on to live their lives as such.

Both these experiences are anecdotal, and ' I know somebody who.... my child says.... my own experience is... ' are interesting and significant, but they are just your personal experiences or my personal experiences, and they point in different directions.

That's where properly-conducted studies are useful, and a number of studies show that gender dysphoria in children is more likely than not to be temporary, and the majority will, with the passage of time and without any medical intervention, accept their biological reality.

It is an emotional subject obviously- I get emotional when I think of vulnerable gender-incongruent children like I was, being told that if they take X or Y or undergo Z, they can change their sex, when in fact that they can never be anything other than the sex they were born into.

I believe that children deserve the truth about biological reality, and all the love and support they need to live that reality.
I base this on my own first-hand experience of growing up, and through, and out of, gender dysphoria in childhood.

You and I, TPA, have come to different conclusions based on our anecdotal experiences.

Judging from your posts on several thread, which are often very negative, using words like 'transphobic' or 'aberrant' etc., you seem to think that your conclusions are more valid than, for instance, mine.