Pissed you can't piss in peace

[IntolerantOfIntolerance]

Being trans right now is to be institutionally discriminated against. It’s having to worry about where and when you can go to the loo. Which is fucking outrageous. That this should happen under a so called Labour government is unforgivable.

Meanwhile we stagger on. If you want backup using a toilet I’m yours. I’ll walk into the ladies with you and tell people to back the fuck off if I have to. I will walk into the men’s too if I have to, so everyone is scandalised at me while you get a chance to sneak in and have a piss in peace. The situation is ludicrous - what I can do is a drop in the ocean, but drop I will.

Maybe I need to print myself a t-shirt that says fighting for the freedom to piss in peace. I don’t know. The world is on fire both metaphorically and literally, yet of all the things one could do a big chunk of people have chosen to gang up on a vulnerable minority. It’s like watching people dig their own graves.

This!
(love the username)

Very well put. Totally correct and succinct. We do not want any sort of male in female only spaces.

This enrages me too. Someone, somewhere, must have the numbers for how many more female than male toilets are needed in various places at various times. Shopping centres and museums in the school holidays will have a different balance compared to a sports bar.

But no one, or almost no one, involved in building design or event planning seems to care, as we stand there with menopausal flooding or barely potty-trained toddlers howling that they need to go nooooOOOW!

Well, yes, building regs and Workplace regs have required ratios, by sex.

Occasional transwomen masturbating in the loos definitely is a problem.

Because men matter more. That's the be all and end all of it.

They do. I've asked men and they were mortified at the thought of women using men's facilities. Men are also entitled to privacy and dignity.

Those who want to promote mixed sex facilities should do so openly. Most people don't want this.

yes…
and more than that:

• it puts honest men in a difficult position. We would never choose to be alone with a woman in somewhere like a loo - it leaves men open to allegations… safeguarding is about protecting women in vulnerable situations, but also men from accusations against them.
• it is unfair on boys some of whom will be going through hormonal changes themselves… they don’t need the complication of not knowing whether the blokes’ loo might have girls in it…

That's shocking

The transman i know is so very outspoken as being accepted as male in every way shape or form.

But this person it as risk of rape no matter how they identify.

I really do worry. Women are always at risk of rape no matter how they identify.

Hmm... You know, I'm wondering if using those arguments would get people further in defending the GC position. I mean, considering how many people out there seem to be far more sensitive to the "Think of the poor men!" arguments than to, "Let's protect women," maybe explaining why this is bad for the men as well would work better? After all, everyone knows that there's nothing worse in the world than for a man to be wrongfully accused of rape (/s) , so deliberately putting men into that exact potential situation might be enough to finally make people see sense?

Nobody is policing your appearance.
Where what you like.
Just use the correct toilet for your sex.

Oh for goodness sake.

I know the narrative is all about 'I want you to accept me as I choose to be, and accept my wonderful variety and diversity, and my special needs and differences' which is great.

The thing is that you also have to in return extend that same to everyone else. In particular women who also want you to accept their wonderful variety and diversity and special needs and differences, which include needing single sex spaces.

Trans people are very very special, everybody gets it. They just cannot trump everything and everyone else all the time, and always come first. Other people matter too.

So the guidance has fixed this, adding more for trans people in fact than required by law, by making clear that while the massive majority of unambiguously male/female people want and need spaces on the basis of their sex for privacy, dignity, etc, and rely on this for their inclusion, those who do not want to do this because of the impact on their sense of identity, privacy and dignity, or for whom it is not a clear cut matter, or those who have radically changed their appearance and created a lot of ambiguity, must have access to additional mixed sex spaces in which none of this matters, will not arise, and will not be an issue or barrier for them.

Why we're still dealing with whinging and moaning from activists (and as demonstrated on this thread, it's activists and not trans people as a whole) I don't know. 'I don't want anyone else to have anything' is not a reasonable or rational argument.

But without the whinging and moaning, what would activists be left with?

(additional mixed-sex spaces, apparently. So not out in the cold with nowhere to go. How devastating.)

TRA want every situation to be a validation exercise.

So toilets and changing rooms go from offering essential services as safely as possible to be about their identity.

The only reason Eddie Izzard needs to in the women's toilet is because if he goes into the men, his identity hits reality. He knows the only 'harm' he will face in the men is acceptance - he'll be seen as a man using male facilities.

We can't design facilities based on someone's inner identity while ignoring real needs based on sex and safety.

If men can use women's spaces, the spaces need to be redesigned to accommodate both sexes. Making it unisex.

Maybe thats these men's second choice - if they cannot use women's spaces, they want the spaces removed.

It is clearer if you use the word sex instead of gender.

If toilets etc are actually mixed sex thenthats fine but they need to be clearly marked as such so I know before using them (or not)
If they are women only then NO MEN should be in there, no matter what theya re wearing, have had removed or call themselves

Alongside the rise in gender fluidity, sex is a spectrum, TWAW, etc.etc has been the rise of the 'gender reveal party' where what is revealed is actually the sex of the baby, and there are only two possibilities, the pink balloon or the blue balloon..

Funny that. It's almost as if most people know that human sex is binary, and when they say 'gender' they just mean biological sex, not a soul or an identity.

'Alongside the rise in gender fluidity, sex is a spectrum, TWAW, etc.etc'

'Sex is a spectrum' just sends me to the fair 🤦🏻‍♂️ I always want to ask these people if they actually understand where babies come from and how they are made! Even tiny children are capable of understanding (at a basic level) that sex is binary

I don't understand how the sex can be revealed pre-birth though, if the baby doesn't have its sex assigned until birth? How on earth can they tell? People could be wasting a whole lot of money on the wrong colour balloons.

/sarcasm

You know how some transwomen may feel nervous having to walk into a men’s toilet? That’s how some women may feel when a transwoman with male genitalia walks into the women’s toilets. Think about it for a bit. Who do you think might be more vulnerable?

Some men who identify as women feel they have stopped being men, others not so much. The fact that there is no way of telling beforehand who is likely to be a threat, is why women had their own spaces in the first place. When there used to be no corridors on trains, there were women only train carriages.

Of course not all transwomen are a threat. Not all men are a threat, but the not being able to tell, is why it is, and always has been, safer for women to have their own protected spaces, because they are and always will be, physically more vulnerable than a male who has gone through puberty - the majority of transwomen, I would guess.

Is the outspokenness directed at both males and females? Is it directed at people of all classes and races, or are certain types targeted?

I haven't been on FWR much over the last couple of days because it has been fascinating to watch the foot stamping tantrums over on Twitter at men finally being told no.

Amusingly, the foot stamping tantrums are doing nothing but making those who have (somehow) been unaware of all this up until now very aware and 'wait, what?' about the whole thing.

So, carry on lads. The whole 'we will piss where we want' has such an entitled male territory vibe that it's proving our point beautifully.

I remember the first time I experienced a mixed sex toilet a good few years ago. It was in what was at the time quite a ‘cool’ bar. Everyone was in one big room with cubicles (can’t remember if they were designated male/female or if it was a free for all) and men and women shared the sinks in the middle.

As soon as I walked in I was met by an aggressive man having a go at his girlfriend near the entrance. I was shocked and said something and he then had a go at me. It wasn’t a pleasant experience. Funnily enough, I’ve never experienced that in single sex toilets.

I’d like to take up OP’s offer so that if I ever have to go somewhere like that again (though I try not to) they could accompany me to deal with any angry men in the vicinity so that I could just ‘pee in peace’.

And like the tediously high volume, high frequency tide of sexually violent threats, this aggressive invasion is coming only from one group, with the common characteristic being men.

No women with gender identities shouting about invading and harassing men in single sex spaces. In the same way no women shouting about sexually assaulting and murdering any men who say no to them.

Getting a bit obvious now.

We decided to separate men from women for good reason, but regardless we did separate them.

So there is now no amount of wordplay that will make it ok for men to sneak into women's toilets, changing rooms, sports and so on. And that's ok because they have their own single sex spaces.

We didn't separate on the basis of lipstick or dress length. Or whether someone has a nice wig. We went by sex which is unchanging and unequivocal. ( yes I know what they say on Reddit/Tiktok but it is unchanging in the real world)

Now as long as a man - whether he is trans or not - keeps out of women's spaces he can hold whatever opinion he likes.

Opinions are free. Even when completely based on fantasy such as your attempt to dismiss the very real and documented threat to women by men.

The matter is settled in law and reality. It's time for men to move on