Pissed you can't piss in peace

[IntolerantOfIntolerance]

Being trans right now is to be institutionally discriminated against. It’s having to worry about where and when you can go to the loo. Which is fucking outrageous. That this should happen under a so called Labour government is unforgivable.

Meanwhile we stagger on. If you want backup using a toilet I’m yours. I’ll walk into the ladies with you and tell people to back the fuck off if I have to. I will walk into the men’s too if I have to, so everyone is scandalised at me while you get a chance to sneak in and have a piss in peace. The situation is ludicrous - what I can do is a drop in the ocean, but drop I will.

Maybe I need to print myself a t-shirt that says fighting for the freedom to piss in peace. I don’t know. The world is on fire both metaphorically and literally, yet of all the things one could do a big chunk of people have chosen to gang up on a vulnerable minority. It’s like watching people dig their own graves.

Yes it will be. It seems the design line in the sand is a door gap in a mixed sex environment. I have never found a regulated design that allows this.

Building control, British Standards, HSE toilet advice is like the Supreme Court Judges said - none of it makes sense if woman and man don’t have a biological meaning.

The ‘bodge’ is making single sex designs mixed sex by making the toilet cubicle completely private. This is what ‘inclusive’ designers do without doing risk assessments on who this could affect.

I thought that the sinks also need to be within the cubicle?

YES! THIS! Thank you!

And I also found the initial post in this thread to be quite threatening, but let them speak.

It is very revealing when we let them speak.

Generally everyone. Resharing videos on transwomen complaining that they will be expected to use the mens toilets. This man in the shared video was asking people to define biological sex as the view given is over simplified and year 9 leven 🤯

Biological sex is the most stable and binary definition on the planet among mammals.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that the transman was outspoken about people accepting her as a male. I struggle to picture a transman taking men apart who claim she isn’t male. It makes for an interesting dynamic.

Always worth remembering that if you take away the meaningless¹ gender labels, what TRAs are actually advocating for is dividing toilets, sports, prisons, rape crisis support etc into "Facilities for people who may be threatened or marginalised by others" and "Facilities for people who are threatening or oppressing of others" on a self identified basis.

Well I don't know about you, but I see maybe a tiny wee flaw in that 😂

¹ I say meaningless because no TRActivist or TRAlly has ever actually defined "man" and "woman" as anything other than "what someone feels themself to be, which may or may/not be the same thing as the person beside them who uses the same label", making gender labels effectively meaningless when applied to differentiate groups of people.

Her posts suggest on facebook and instagram.But it's an interesting point you make. She is a biological woman and she doesn't post videos of herself, taking men down a peg, or two, trying to convince them she's one of them.

Only men feel entitled to take woman apart and demand we accept what they're saying.

They do if it’s in a mixed sex environment outside the toilet compartment. However whether they did pre 2024 in England is a matter of debate.

Any refurbishments or new builds after 2024 have to conform to approved document T (but schools and a few other places are exempt). All cubicles have to lead to single sex accommodation.

Universal rooms need to lead onto a main circulation space ideally.

What is interesting in design terms is now the fight for the washroom (hand basins)!

Many of the strategies and approaches are dependent on being depersonalised or abstract and they get away with this by the legitimate point about not wanting to focus on individuals.

I long to ask people if they are confused about their sex, or know of others who are confused about their sex, when they bang on about sex being complicated and a spectrum. I’d live to ask them if they struggle to know what to do to prevent unwanted pregnancy or STIs.

This.

Dolatowski was enabled to commit two crimes in Fife precisely because at that time his trans status supposedly gave him the right to enter women's facilities.

The usual argument is 'Well, any man could have barged in...' The point is that Dolatowski claimed - and keeps claiming - that he has a right to use women's spaces and is 'unsafe' in spaces designated for men.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/courts/4324534/sex-offender-dolatowski-mens-prison/

I couldn’t agree more, @LeftieRightsHoarder - why should disabled people be forced to wait for what is already a scarce facility - possibly soiling themselves - because a man in a dress doesn’t want to use the correct sex facilities!

Well, quite. Despite the desperate attempts at 'both sides as bad as each other!!!', it's absolute horseshit.

All the 'I'll piss on you/decapitate terfs/the only good terf is a dead terf' signs and threats from one side and...the dictionary definition of a woman on the other.

If that is the case, then why all the bloody queues?

Here is your handy three-point guide for going to the toilet if you are a trans identified man, under the Equality Act 2010 and the accompanying EHRC guidance:

1. Use the men's loo.
2. If you're uncomfortable or worried about your safety in the men's loo, use the accessible toilet. It's private and used by both sexes one at a time.
3. Do not use the women's loo.

Well said LastTrainsEast, I like your approach .

'the matter is settled in law and reality' is so good I'm going to steal it

Because they assume that men and women take similar amounts of time to urinate.

But women have to go into a cubicle
Lock the door
Hang up a bag or coat - sometimes this is not possible, and just trying to work it out takes a few seconds
Remove sufficient clothing to sit on the toilet
Urinate
Remove toilet tissue from dispenser if there is any, search bag you just hung on the door out of reach for tissues if not
Wipe
Put paper in the loo
Sometimes deal with a period, including

• removing the used pad or tampon
• disposing of it in the bin which is pressed against your leg and overflowing with other women's used sanitary products.
• wiping and cleaning up
• finding a new pad or tampon from the bag you just hung on the door out of reach
• unwrapping the pad or tampon
• dispose of the wrapper and strip as applicable in the same sanitary bin
• place the pad or tampon appropriately

Replace clothing Flush toilet Collect bag and coat and possibly put coat back on Unlock the door Wash hands

This does not include the steps for those using a mooncup (never used one, but I'm sure it has its own palaver), or those who with babies and/or small children and dealing with their toileting needs, interactions as well.

Men
Approach a urinal
Unzip trousers or shorts
Pull out penis
Urinate
Put penis back
Zip up trousers or short
Leave the faciliites

So women need more toilets closer to the auditorium/reception. Many architects put the men's toilets closest because they draw them first. Now I've told you, you are going to notice that.

So are we saying that the regs are rubbish as they're not based on reality (that is, all of the above plus it's more likely to be women dealing with children too)?

Yes. They were written in the 1970s when women were barely tolerated in the workplace. (I did mention babies and children.)

There’s so many reasons. But we are playing catch up with design. Toilets are squeezed in to old buildings that never had toilets in. Firstly it would have been mens toilets, then women’s then possibly a disabled, now called accessible.

A lot of it has had to be guidance and only works going forward with new builds and refurbishments. Much of this is not ‘law’. However, on the other hand if you do not comply with building regs that causes problems as any householder knows.

It’s the same with the electrics in my house. There are not up to current regs but it’s ok to have them. But if I was to install something new, the electrics would have to be up to current regs.

The thing that has changed is that designs went completely off-piste recently in the name of inclusivity. It was becoming a free for all and no one was regarding standards. Making a big deal about Approved Document T (2024) was an attempt to solve that by the government, but it was still for designs going forward because the government costed it out and thought it would be too unpopular for businesses and impossible for some (in historic buildings).

However, people can’t get away with ‘inclusive’ designs since FWS because there’s been so much talk on toilets.

For most the venues that have stuck with regulations, legislation and standards over the years, there should not be a problem.

The ones I feel sorry for are schools. Designers have gone fully off-piste with them for almost 2 decades and it really is at odds with single sex design in some schools.

This is the real type of designer partnership, a disabled man and his wife making a contribution to toilet history but it shows for how long women have been complaining about queues:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2011/may/31/selwyn-goldsmith-obituary

This.

There is a requirement for an accessible space for everybody. Those who are believers in magic science and no two binary sexes can bore the ever loving fuck out of each other to their heart's content in the mixed sex space where they can be of whatever sex, or not, or be too complicated, without it being a problem to them or anyone else.

Just ffs leave other people in peace.

Its also the idea that people need safe spaces and they can define 'safe'.

So trans identifying men need the safety of the ladies to be women which cannot be achieved in the gents.

But the law must allow any man to follow the trans identifying man into the ladies.

I didnt explain my thoughts well. I think they have declared toilets safe spaces, where 'safe' in this context mean 'ablility to perform woman all day'. As soon as they enter the gents, the illusion is gone. They are men peeing, not women. Safety as in their mental health, maybe?

Given they often say that a sign on the door doesnt keep men out, also no 'cis' men would use women's spaces, im not sure they are consistent about toilets role in physical safety.

Well it's no woman's job to maintain illusions for them. If they think they are 'performing woman' in all other situations, they are only fooling themselves.

Gender is a well known term.