Pissed you can't piss in peace

[IntolerantOfIntolerance]

Being trans right now is to be institutionally discriminated against. It’s having to worry about where and when you can go to the loo. Which is fucking outrageous. That this should happen under a so called Labour government is unforgivable.

Meanwhile we stagger on. If you want backup using a toilet I’m yours. I’ll walk into the ladies with you and tell people to back the fuck off if I have to. I will walk into the men’s too if I have to, so everyone is scandalised at me while you get a chance to sneak in and have a piss in peace. The situation is ludicrous - what I can do is a drop in the ocean, but drop I will.

Maybe I need to print myself a t-shirt that says fighting for the freedom to piss in peace. I don’t know. The world is on fire both metaphorically and literally, yet of all the things one could do a big chunk of people have chosen to gang up on a vulnerable minority. It’s like watching people dig their own graves.

https://x.com/gaynotqueer1/status/2044385499138212328?s=46

Lef’s not forget this recent video of a man talking about trauma is very illustrative also.

He is saying in this interview that female people in Germany saying that because they were sexual violence victims they cannot be in a space they expect to be female sex only with a male with a penis as it is triggering is not ‘a rational political position’.

He then says that it should be recognised as a ‘disturbing trauma response’ and that the female person ‘who desperately needs therapy for sexual assault’.

He then says that he cannot understand the situation where it is allowable to say “*I am this, therefore you must do this, has led to this situation. I can understand why someone might be afraid, but I try to not make my trauma other people’s problem’.

He then talks about the ‘feminine penis’.

This is a man who simply self destructed the arguments for himself and others to use female single sex provisions based on safety.

And the other man who was interviewing him simply nodded along and agreed.

You really cannot make this up.

Operation: Let them speak!

Yeah, exactly.

No cis woman is helped by this ridiculous pretence that rape in unlocked, unsafe public spaces can be prevented by policing appearance.

It's rape apologia and rape myth.

“Piss off” is the rational response to this nonsense.

This, exactly.

As if very occasional trans women standing in that queue are the real issue.

Cheers for showing just how fucked trans people are in the UK.

Take hormones and have surgery, get condemned by transphobes.

Don't do it, get told you're not a 'real' trans person and haven't made enough effort to pass.

Also: trans men exist, jfc. This ruling greatly affects how easy it is for them to cope with periods in public.

Because transphobes also get angry when tampons and sanitary bins are made available in the Gents.

Some transsexuals do pass. They are the ones you don’t see.

And still nobody has ever actually shown us one of those mythical passing transwomen. You'd think at least one of them would be prepared to take one for the team and out themselves for the greater good.

No, the ruling and guidance confirm that they must have provision.

A GREAT SHORT EXPLANATION AS TO WHY ‘PASSING’ CANNOT WORK

https://x.com/loudbonnet/status/2015445855268979095?s=46

“I think it's pretty hopeless to defend women-only prisons except by saying no men, ever. That's the only principled position.”

“Of/c the male prison estate has to keep vulnerable men safe, but feminised men are not by any means the only vulnerable men. I don't see how one could ever justify using vulnerable female prisoners as a human shield for a subcategory of men.”

“And "passing" men are the worst problem of all. It's positively sadistic to say to women "everyone else here is a woman, or else so like a woman that you won't be able to tell". What could be more calculated to foster permanent hyper-vigilance in the already-traumatised?”

There is no way to define ‘trans’ in a way that excludes anyone, so the only choices are mixed sex or single sex spaces.

You can certainly make an argument for mixed sex spaces, but there is no point forcing provision of single sex spaces that anyone can use.

I really don’t know what you are suggesting instead.

No policing of appearance. Just clear rules and the expectation of honesty.

(The Good Law Project has suggested that toilets should be segregated by ‘lived gender’ which does suggest uncertainty and policing of appearance).

Per the legislation, toilets are single sex to protect privacy, not to prevent rape.

I suspect that keeptoiletssafe has already explained the ins and outs of toilet design to you, but if you think toilets should be mixed sex you are free to make that case.
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Telling women they have no right to their own spaces, that they can't maintain their own boundaries, that their consent doesn't matter - that's what incels do.

Is that what you're going for @TransParentlyAnnoyed?

Always baffled by the presumption that TW can’t possibly use the men’s toilets presumably because men are unpredictable and violent, but actual women aren’t afforded the same courtesy. Make it make sense!!!

The problem with your (lack of) logic is that there is actually no such thing as trans.

no one has an issue with people taking hormones or even mutilating themselves with surgery (though it is terribly sad that anyone’s mental health takes them to that place and we would all rather see that mental health being treated)

just don’t pretend that you are the opposite sex.

if born a man, it doesn’t matter what you do you will remain a man, maybe a man with surgery or the results of hormones, but still a man. As a man you are not allowed in women only spaces - and you have no need as there are plenty of men only spaces for you to use… therefore the only reason to want to use women only spaces is to intimidate women or worse.

if born a women the same applies - you might take hormones or have surgery but you are still a woman - biological sex is immutable. There is no issue with periods in public - we have female only loos - use them… If the changes you make to yourself are going to cause issues, then consider that before making those changes - you need to take responsibility for the outcome of your own choices…

so there is no such thing as trans because sex is immutable - male remains male / female remains female - so use the spaces designed for you - they are labelled with your biological sex and there are no issues - you have as many facilities as anyone else..,

Given we know from data gathered in council run leisure facilities that rape and sexual assault is significantly more common in mixed sex facilities than in single sex ones single sex facilities seem a good idea

given we know from prison data that transgender women commit sexual offences as readily as other men, treating them as women sounds stupid

why on earth would we be happy to convert single sex spaces into mixed sex ones? What rational would there be to exclude other men ?

given we know women are much more like to to suffer ( sexual related ) trauma than just about any thing else in society ( women are more likely to have pstd than soldiers ) why on earth would we dismiss that and say “it’s their problem to get their mental health fixed “ rather than offer some support and privacy whilst they are on that journey ?

how many born and raised as women would actually not give another women their own space if they was asked ?

they don’t just what to piss - they want to piss on our rights and our dignity

What about the need for women to have comfort, privacy and dignity? Do none of those matter?

I don’t recognise the term cis. It’s meaningless. If you’re going to differentiate, how about using either ‘actual’ or ‘biological’?

Well it won’t improve the situation will it?!

besides, while the iniquity of time waiting for different loos is a real issue, it is not the main reason why men are not allowed in the women’s loos - they are for women only and men are not and can never be women.

I know a transman at my gym. This person is obsessed with toilets and because no bottom surgery has taken place, they remain an intact female on the lower half despite having had the rest of the surgery, this person is unable to use a urinal and must go into the cubicles.In a man's toilet.

I find it quite galling that they refer to nontrans individuals as privileged. We don't know how privileged we are being able to use a toilet without thinking about it. I mean pick a struggle.

I always think that men might be uncomfortable with a biological female was in their toilet and changing rooms.

I don't understand the obsession with toilets and I don't understand that.Having made a conscious choice to alter your body there is an issue going into opposite sex toilets.Because you're not a member of that sex.

Calling it Privilege, for being able to use a woman's toilet as a woman or a man's toilet as a man is beyond belief.It's absolutely absurd.

I am also worried about this transman.Entering a man's toilet as an intact female on the bottom. There's still a risk of rape there because they biologically female.

So disabled people, who have no choice, would just have to wait while self-entitled men flounce through their facilities. Yup, everyone has to defer to the narcissists.

Nobody passes, not if they are Caucasian. Maybe some of the south or East Asian men do at a first glance, but, even then, there is something that gives it away. The male entitlement, usually.

we can tell you’re male just from the way you post on here, mate. We don’t need to conisder how you walk, fiddle with your hair, do that wee eyeliner flicky thing, to tell. Nobody passes.

'I always think that men might be uncomfortable with a biological female was in their toilet and changing rooms.'

I agree. I think a lot of men would find it very uncomfortable and embarrassing. It's a shame they're not more vocal about it. This is largely a problem for men to fix, but women are made out to be the villains, as usual

A trans men was sectioned and put on a women’s ward. despite being ill enough to be sectioned she insisted on being moved to a men’s ward and they agreed.

she was raped within a hour.

The best way for men to piss in peace is calmly walk into the men's toilets, and piss without making a scene and then zip up, ideally wash their hands and then leave.

Hope that helps.

This!!!

If providing women's toilets doesn't keep anyone safe, as you say, then transwomen may as well use the gents and have done with it.

Oh no, that pisses me off too.

And the fact that TRA demands have made places have unisex toilets which now even men have to queue for alongside women. That pisses me off.I imagine it pisses men off too.

Please don't think I agree with you about what the real issue is. There are many real issues. The biggest is misogyny and male entitlement.