Trans Women are Real Women and Should Have Access to Women's Spaces

[user08101988]

Started because a thread on Girlguiding was getting too off topic.

Correct. Coming onto a site called 'Mumsnet' with an OP like this one is a bit like visiting a site for secular agnostics and stating 'God is great, there is only one god, apostates burn in hell'.

No they bloody aren’t

And what about the Girls that don't want a boy in their group?. They deserve to have angry boys stamp their feet and call them Bigots for daring to have their own views?. Yet again Girls being made to feel bad for saying NO to men and boys.

Nope. I was not ‘assigned’ female at birth. I was female from the moment of conception and I continue to be. You can prance around in a frock all you like. You still have a Y chromosome and you are still male.

This is currently the top trending thread 😄

FFS. Nobody cares if Dave puts on a frock and a bit of lippy and calls himself Doris. He still can't access women's spaces or join women's sports teams. Because he is still a MAN! HTH.

This again? Not according to the Supreme Court or anyone with eyes. Do you also think a Kitkat is a real cat? A clothes horse a real horse?

I am, I suppose, a gender realist (thinking scientifically, & also pedantically!!), in that I don't believe that a man can truly become a woman (or vice versa). Not in the genetic sense*. To me, that's just common sense.

To me, the closest comparison I can make is that I'm Irish, lived there for the first 20 years of my life - then moved to Scotland & have lived here for nearly 40 years. I'm both Irish & Scottish in a way - the law says I'm Irish, but I vote here & am immersed in my life in Scotland! I hope that doesn't sound flippant (my trans friends don't think so).

The study doesn't say that the brain of someone who's transitioned becomes that of the opposite sex in its characteristics - it says that brain activity shifts to become more aligned with gender identity. That's not the same thing.

However, I also believe very strongly that men who have transitioned should not be considered the same as cis men - they are trans women. I hate the mockery on here of trans women, the insistence on calling them men or men in "womanface", the assumption that every trans woman is a sexual deviant & opportunist. It's loathsome & hateful & bigoted. IMO there are extremists on both sides of the debate & those are the voices that are heard & make headlines.

I am also a trans ally with several trans friends (all MtF), & believe that the change in law regarding toilet access is wrong & humiliating & had not been thought through properly - then or now.

*I'm excluding the rare hermaphroditic/genetic anomalies here for simplicity. That confuses the issue unnecessarily.

Possible it was a dare.

You’ve misunderstood the feminist movement. It was about saying the only thing different about us is our genitals and reproductive organs, which means we are capable of all the things men are.

Saying women are women because of their genitalia isn’t reductive. Saying a man can become a woman because they feel like one is regressive - because if it’s not about genitalia, which bit is it that makes you a woman?

I know many men, and truly the only different between me and them is my body is designed to carry children. I genuinely don’t know what else distinguishes me as a woman from those men.

@user08101988 - human beings cannot change sex. You can get surgeries and medical/hormonal treatments to allow you to mimic the opposite sex, but that does not change your biological sex. Your skeleton, musculature, endocrine system, DNA, and chromosomes do not change.

Women and girls need and deserve single SEX spaces - loos, changing rooms, hospital wards, prison cells, sports, groups - and any male individual, no matter how he ‘identifies’, who forces his way into these spaces, is a predator.

And that's why we don't let children safeguard themselves.

Life used to be so simple, for the simpler folk where words have meaning:
isMan() = !isWoman()
The proof:
isWoman()=!hasYChromosome()
isMan()=hasYChromosome()

tw = isMan() + someWomanStereoType()

TW are not women, they're men. Always have been, always will be.

0/10 for effort.

We're not that far into the school holiday! Are you bored already OP?

No and I would not use a uni sex ever.

@EleanorMc67

However, I also believe very strongly that men who have transitioned should not be considered the same as cis men - they are trans women.

1. What do you mean by "transitioning"?
2. What is a trans woman? How would you describe them? Especially in relation to women.

Agree, but as an aside in the UK at least, sex is not assigned at birth it is observed (and recorded).
Assigned makes it sound like the midwife chose who is male and female. In reality the midwife observes the sex based on external genitalia which is correct in over 99.99999999% of cases. If the baby is born with ambiguous genitalia then a blood test is done to establish sex.

100% because they don't want a compromise. The want to invade women's spaces as some sort of 'proof' they are 'women' and to hell what women think.

Also, if you think stripping down what women are to their body parts, that's what feminists fought against for years.

Sex is defined by body parts across species. However, and this might come as a shock to you, women are also human.

This means that we are not just defined by our sex, but also full members of the human race.

You might as well suggest that it is reductive to note blood type or height or age.

(Dear DWP, I would like to retire now, and cannot believe that I am not entitled to a state pension. How dare you reduce me to my age!!!!!!????)

Obvious man posts a ridiculously goady thread, and 2 hours later we have 11 pages of women saying "It's a hard No from me", which he will go on to completely ignore and will carry on feeling entitled to our spaces, etc, all while telling us we are wrong. The absolute epitome of male entitlement. 🙄

That's why their called TRANS woman because they make the transition from male to female don't be bloody idiotic!!!

The only sort of human that can be a trans woman is a man. They are male. Always have been male, always will be male.

In addition to their male sex trans women have a gender identity.

Trans women are trans women. Only a male can be a trans women.

#urinalcakesarecakes

There is no problem because statistics clearly demonstrate that transmen retain the crime profile of the women they used to be. Ie, as safe a bathroom co-user as any other woman.
Whereas trans women retain the crime profile of the men they used to be. Ie, just as likely to commit crimes as other men. That's very low, but different from women.

That is the reason we have single sex spaces - so that women are not exposed to men's crime profile and behaviour.

They can wear what they like, they can colour their hair any colour they wish, they can choose their names as they wish but they are men. They will always be men.

If these folks enter womens' spaces - eg toilets, changing facilities etc, think of them as forged banknotes - if they can pass themselves off as genuine women, no one will ever know, but if the deception is uncovered, they should expect rejection, possibly forceful rejection.