Grace Campbell - Alastair Campbell

[BlueLegume]

If I have missed any threads already started about this then apologies.

I am literally lost for words on the post she added to her podcast along with Charlie Craggs.

My own daughter has been lost to this cause. I am hoping I get her back. How utterly vile can a young woman be - Grace Campbell - towards women who have worked so hard to give her such privilege. I might be ugly and a freak Grace with awful hair. But I am not a mean girl.

I also disagree about parents having far more power in the relationship than their children, until shortly before the parent's death. It will obviously vary from family to family, but a young adult off enjoying their life, with a job and relationships, is not powerless in their relationship with parents. It may well be the opposite, in particular when grandchildren come into the mix.

You're making assumptions.

some parents enjoy being able to influence their child's emotions, but I don't.

From everything you have said, you very clearly do and you have.

Go and read the stories of detransitioners who dearly wish that their parents had not capitulated to their demands and had not encouraged their delusions. And don't bother coming back with the "They are just 1%" myth.

Then read the stories of desisters who poured hatred on parents who denied them access to the internet and the toxic "friends" who urged them to run away from home and "go no contact" with their families, who now thank their parents for protecting them from harm.

You centre yourself, your emotional comfort now and your feelings about how you will feel at the end of your life, in almost everything you have said. You base your understanding of the lives of "trans people" on myths and misinformation.

Assuming that you would also "support" your daughter to medicalise, you are setting her up for a life of avoidable illness, pain, restricted opportunity for fulfilling relationships, sterility, early menopause and significantly increased risk of early-onset dementia and cardiac arrest. These are life-limiting conditions so you should be thinking about being there for her and holding her hand at the end.

If you can stop radiating self-righteousness for long enough, do her a favour and do some research instead of spouting patronising guff on Mumsnet.

Just for starters:

Society for Evidence Based Gender Medicine (SEGM)
https://segm.org/

The WPATH Files
https://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/wpath-files

Parents with Inconvenient Truths about Trans (PITT)
https://www.pittparents.com/

The Gender Dysphoria Trap
https://tullipr.substack.com/p/the-gender-dysphoria-trap

Detransition Pathway UK
detranspathway.com/

Probably, I'm not perfect. But I am concerned for you.

I think you need to ask yourself: how is posting about trans people, in a forum hostile to them, helping you?

Is it making you feel worse? Perhaps more frustrated and sad?

It won't help you move on, or heal your relationship.with your child.

I wonder what It would have done to my grandmother, who maintained that my aunt's girlfriend had forced her to be gay. Also that she had too many gay friends, and was simply gay to fit in. What if she'd found a place where being a lesbian was despised and made fun of? Theories made as to why they existed? I think she would have lost even that hesitant contact with her daughter, and been consumed with pointless, poisonous hate.

The dopamine of posting in a trans-hostile space will not make you happier, or bring your child back. Only listening to them will do that.

I apologise for any presumptions, but I know one thing absolutely: I have felt the weight of my child's happiness in my hands, and all I knew was not to break it. That instinct saved our relationship.

I sincerely hope you can reconcile, but there will not be any apology, or admission you were right, from their side. Even if they eventually detransition (quite unlikely) they will remember your rejection and not seek your support through it.

Hurting them at such a critical moment will have done such harm, but it can be repaired. I would step away from this place for a while and listen to your child.

That's just my opinion as an estranged child myself, whose instinct was not to reject her own.

I wish you well, goodnight.

I would support my child no matter what, including through detransition.

Which is unlikely, as it's (despite your raft of Christian Right-funded transphobia) rare. The regret rate for surgery is lower than joint surgery, for a start. The most commonly cited reason for detransition is transphobia.

Forcing children to accept your view, as a parent, is pointless and abusive.

I got pregnant at 25, while estranged from my boyfriend and jobless - and my mother wasn't happy about it. But my body, my choice: so she supported me. If I'd turned round and blamed her for not nagging me to have an abortion, her answer - very correctly- would have been: "It was your choice."

Similarly, I have sat beside a woman I knew was pregnant by a man who was harming her, and not by choice, in a GP office. She asked me if she should have an abortion: I badly wanted to say yes, but instead said: I can't make that decision for you.

Supporting your child is Parenting 101. Rejecting them for who they are is abusive and wrong.

I know a few people who have detransitioned. Not one had sought surgery or hormones, so the detrans amounted to changing their names and haircut. A lot of those sort of detransitioners appear in your material.

By contrast, every trans person I personally know (I would say 5-6 in my family and friends, plus many others online) who's on hormones has reported a profound sense of relief. They have been through counselling and thought deeply on the subject before proceeding. They have all been living openly as trans for at least five years.

Estranged parents need to consider whether their addiction to posting anti-trans hate on here is worth more to them than their child.

I feel bad for them, as reconciling would probably mean they many lost friends on here.

It is immeasurably sad that any otherwise normal, sane person would spend their life posting frenetically about trans people as though they were monsters, not individuals with perfectly ordinary lives. And I feel upset for their poor kids, who will feel so hurt and abandoned. You only get one mum, after all.

Rory Stewart is not left wing. He’s no longer a member of the Conservative Party, but he’s most definitely not become left wing.

My child is a trans man, as I made clear. You haven’t made it clear. If your child is a trans man, that means biologically female, but wishing to be described as male. But you speak of being proud about your son wearing skirts, which is female clothing.

You refer to your son, so think of your child as male.

Have you seen an adult child tell their parent to get their feet off the sofa, that their fringe looks awful, go answer the door please, put this on the table, stop fidgeting?

Perhaps your family doesn't contain any parents like this. Mine very much does - and now my kids are older I find that trap very difficult to avoid.

Children can hurt parents, yes. Which just shows how wrong being judgemental and controlling towards someone you love is, right?

And some parents never lose that power to hurt - even when they are physically frail. Some die never having relinquished it.

My point is: being rejected by someone who has power over you, because they do not approve of something you cannot change about yourself will only result in the child taking that power back - usually by keeping away from the parent, going full no-contact because they fear feeling that pain again. They will close their heart as protection further damage, and it is up to the parent to open it again.

He's a trans man who wears skirts. And yeah, I am proud of that. Because it demonstrates that his dysphoria has been eased by being accepted & respected. He knows his friends & family think of him as a trans guy, so he doesn't need to perform masculinity to ease it instead.

Trans boys often stop binding when at home, if they're sure they won't be misgendered.

Lots of trans people are gender non-conforming, and prefer not to dress according to gender stereotypes. Some do, and that's fine - so long as it's their decision & they don't feel pressured into it by an appearance-obsessed society.

He's a trans man who wears skirts. Clothes are not a gender.

I...don't get how that's difficult, sorry.

Wearing a skirt doesn't make anyone female. I never wear them, lots of trans & cis guys do. Trans women often wear skirts but loads don't.

Got it. So born female, presents as stereotypically feminine by wearing makeup and dresses. Yet is a man. Sure. No, i similarly can’t see what is confusing about that whatsoever. In fact, I will be transitioning to male tomorrow and to really hammer my inner masculinity home, I shall wear my prettiest dress, makeup and have my hair done.

Sorry this is totally confusing ( quite possibly deliberately) you have ( had) a daughter who has " transistioned" to male eg: a trans male, including hormones ? surgery ?. Who now likes to wear skirts ? How old is this person ? If less than 20 and no hormones/surgery then I respectfully think your daughter just went through a gender questioning phase, very common particularly in autistic girls. If this is a 25yo who has had a full hysterectomy and years of hormone treatment then obviously so much more complex.

😁 Seriously, what?

Well, first, he isn't autistic.

He is a trans boy. Who likes. Wearing. Make-up. And skirts.

Clothes aren't gender. I'm still a cis woman despite not wearing skirts, he is still a trans boy despite wearing them.

Do you...think being trans is a Superman-type thing? That he puts on different clothes and becomes someone else?

I'm so sorry you're confused. Let me put it this way: a trans man remains a trans man whatever he wears. Same as a trans woman remains a trans woman whatever she wears.

I'd respectfully suggest you read more, and talk to some trans people, if you believe gender is created & expressed simply through clothing; it isn't.

Lots of cis men wear skirts too btw.

I'm really quite baffled you don't know this.

Honestly 😁

And don't forget, misgendering is genicide!

Trans Ideology - sure does keep you on your toes 😄

I'm really quite baffled you don't know this.

'Baffled'.

I shall be snorting all morning 😁

Morning, darling. Good Saturday?

Have fun today with...whatever it is you do on here.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed you have contributed a fair amount of quite confusing information on this thread. The use of the word cis makes me unlikely to engage with your comments. There are men and women.

The thread has been derailed by your story.

The thread was about a very privileged woman being derogatory towards some women of great courage who fought for the rights of women to be protected.

Lol in your desperation for your child not to denounce you as old or out of touch, you’ve convinced yourself of the most ridiculous nonsense.
I actually know a lot about the issue thanks and I do know a fair few trans people. I don’t know any “trans man” who wears skirts and makeup I must say. Obviously a trans man is female but they modify their bodies and clothing to try to pass as male (which some do) as it aligns with their inner identity. What precisely makes a female person who also presents as stereotypically feminine a man? The answer is precisely fuck all and it sounds like your child is either very confused or just taking the piss out of your naivety.

... or fictitious

Well yeah that’s probably the most likely

Erm, no. He's a trans man who likes wearing skirts & make-up. I'm a bit surprised you think clothing is gender - I wear what I want, so does he. Being gnc is very common, whether someone is cis or trans.

The only thing he takes the (gentle) piss out of is my ability to walk in a straight line. Which is fair enough, I am very bad at it.

My child isn't my identity. Who he is, is his business. If he detransed, I would be equally supportive.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed did you actually read my recent post? This thread is not about your story.

Sorry you feel that way. I had a long night awake caring, and replied to people who talked to me.

My use of cis is fairly common. It just means 'not trans' - and helps avoid confusion.

As I said, I don't condone personal attacks - on anyone.

Hope things improve for you.

There is some utterly nonsensical stuff that comes out of this ideology. Really, the longer it goes on, the sillier it gets. I just wish that it was only silly, rather than than a danger to women's rights and child safeguarding.

And again: there is no need for the word 'cis'. See numerous posts explaining this.