Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

@Steph2002 - the fact that you are happy to share a toilet with a trans woman does not mean I have to be. Consent is not transferable.

Human beings cannot change sex, and trans women are still males - with male strength and male patterns of violence against women. Women and girls have every right to safety, privacy and dignity, and single sex spaces are vital to achieving these things.

I do not hate transgender people - but I do hate the ideology that says it is fine to threaten women with rape, mutilation or death for stating that women deserve single sex spaces, sports etc. Or that says that children should be given irreversible medical and surgical treatments to ‘treat’ mental distress. Or that people should be doxxed or lose their jobs for not blindly following the TRA dogma. Or that women’s awards, prizes, opportunities etc can be claimed by mediocre men who have just thrown on a bit of lippy and a dress.

I believe it is deeply toxic and regressive to say that someone who likes pink, make up, skirts, long hair must be a woman, and someone who wants short hair, trousers and watches/plays rugby has to be male. Women have spent decades fighting for the right to wear, like and do whatever we want, without being g limited by what society says women can and can’t do - and now the trans ideology wants to put us back in those toxic stereotypes again.

I firmly believe that everyone has the right to like or dislike whatever they choose - and no-one should be limited by their biological sex - but this is the exact opposite of what the TRAs believe. Having short hair doesn’t make me less female, and wearing skirts doesn’t make me more female. Men can wear make up if they want - it doesn’t make them any less male.

A woman is someone with female biology and any character and likes/dislikes - NOT someone with any biology and a ‘feminine’ character and likes/dislikes. Anything else is old fashioned and toxic.

So do you think any woman who is a bit hairy or masculine is not a real woman? Why do you hold these misogynistic views about beauty standards making a woman?

That's interesting I've not seen that post but that's not good if it's true maybe you could post a link

Interesting first posts ‘steph’, I wonder if you realise that your friend is most likely cross dessing as part of a sexual fetish.

Oh it's 2015 again

I think your now twisting my words

So is your position only men who have had surgery should be in women's toilets, and not the men who decided yesterday they are women?

If so how are you going to gatekeep that given that the GRC process has been opened up so wide these days?

Did you know the vast majority of 'transwomen' haven't had surgery?

The overreach of the TRAs have caused the massive pushback, the old fashioned transsexuals have been caught in the crossfire.

The supreme court however has been clear, no male sex in female single sex spaces / organisations etc.

Ahhh time fir the bingo card

honrstly all this "trans ppl are just the loveliest most kindest sweetest fluffiest little snuggles in the whole of toyland" is so patronising to trans ppl

trans ppl are ppl - some are nice, some are bloody awful, some are harmless, some are violent thugs - they're no different to the rest of humanity

Wow, yet another so called "ally" spouting bigotry, hatred and transphobia.

I do not hate transgender women, but I do not consider them women when it comes to biological separation - sports, toilets, prisons etc.

My husband is the nicest man I've ever met, he is gentle and kind and has never so much as raised his voice to me. I am absolutely confident he would be zero threat in a female bathroom. I still would not advocate for him to be in there, as the separation is made to protect women en masses.

Well I think that just about wraps things up for this discussion:

you believe a transwoman is a woman, we believe a transwoman is a man;
you believe a transman is a man, we believe a transman is a woman.
We don't hate transpeople.
We want spaces designated for women to be what the legally should be: for biological women only. You don't, but fortunately you don't make the law.
If you want to share a toilet with men, that's fine, you do you.

Is that a fair summing up?

How to tell the difference between a "true transgender woman" and a "man in a dress"?

That's really transphobic of you. Who are you to decide who is transgender or not? If they say they are trans, then they are trans - that is how it works.

Anyway I don't have time to entertain attention seeking visitors from Reddit or Bluesky

you can just tell it's school holiday time

Nope. Just curious on why you think shaving and acting "feminine" is what makes a woman a woman.

And how many of your children’s friends who are not trans are also lovely, gentle and beautiful human beings?

@Steph2002 - the issue is that, even if we accept that ‘real’ transgender people are just lovely, kind, safe individuals, how are we supposed to tell, just by looking, who is a ‘proper’, safe trans woman, and who isn’t? The answer is that you can’t tell by looking, and that is exactly why we exclude ALL male individuals from women’s single sex spaces.

But she didn’t say she hated the transgender man - she said she would hate to share a toilet with them? Not even a subtle difference - and precisely the type of deliberate misrepresentation of people’s words that is fuelling the conflict.

Everyone knows men aren't women and women acknowledging that reality and acknowledging women's rights to single sex spaces free from men - even men who pretend to be women - is not, in any way at all, hate.

And consent is not transferable, so even if you prefer to share spaces with men who pretend to be women you are in the tiny minority and all the other women will just keep their sex based rights, regardless of you clutching the smelling salts and attempting to jam some misogynistic version of bE kInD down their throats.

How do you feel about the approximately 90% of transwomen who don't have surgery and still have a penis?

I think it's closer to 95% - but of course even a castrated man is still, always, a man.

I think, from the OP's point of view, one is hairy the other isn't?

He's on this thread and others, styling himself AidaP:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5511121-glp-are-going-after-sarah-phillimore-and-are-going-to-lose-part-two?page=1

Here's his bluesky post:
https://bsky.app/profile/aidap.bsky.social/post/3midp5hebd22a

If you are a genuine poster, then I suggest you have a look at a site called Trans Crime UK (I will not be allowed to link from Mumsnet)

If you want to see real hatred and bile check out how they talk about gender critical women on those sites.

There is a bit of hate on here, I agree - the comments often go too far. But I think it's because it's gone too far on both sides.

Many people are just fed up with being forced to say black is white and want to be able to honestly say the truth.

It's insane to have reality policed, and the policing of reality forces people to become more extreme. I used to be very moderate and very supportive until I got fed up with having 'trans women are women' shoved down my throat. (Trans women are legitimate in their own right. I know several through a hobby. They're great, lovely people and they're definitely happiest living as trans women. I'm pleased for them! Why shouldn't they wear exactly what they want. But they're not female, they are male people, and I'd be called a transphobe for this view, which honestly made me lose patience and sympathy. With the movement - not with them.)