Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

Read this and had a Pete the Plumber moment knowing the MoJ stats would be landing very soon....

A "Restroom" in the wild - why hello visitor from America who hasn't a clue about UK law

But that makes you a hateful bigot. Why not be very clear about no men in women only spaces to start of with?

Being a man in a women’s space is intimidating and threatening in and of itself. It’s boundary violating behaviour.

Orrr… and hear me out on this one….. we tell all males to keep out of female spaces and get the police to prosecute if they don’t stay out.

'cis' in this context is the invention of a very dodgy sexologist, using it immediately teams you with people with questionable and dangerous attitudes.

https://grokipedia.com/page/Volkmar_Sigusch

I can’t have a man in that space. And I always know. I’ve expla8ned before,on here the trauma response I had in an innocent scenario.

This

Why would a woman be 'unsafe' in the vanishingly unlikely event she was asked to prove her sex to use a toilet? For the vast vast majority of women our sex is never questioned, a key difference in our experience and theirs that I think TW struggle to understand/admit to.
However if it came to a choice of being required to provide ID to keep women's spaces single sex, I'd be more than happy. As it's not remotely 'unsafe' to do so.

Why is the answer never for men simply to obey the law?

They can pee in peace and dignity in the men's toilets. Because they are men.

The thing is: I rather have to confirm that I'm a woman (all nearly 6 foot of me and my rarely kempt hair and usually make up free face). I'm sure I will cope just fine with it if this is what it takes to keep men out of women only spaces

Please explain in detail why you think that this paper shows that male people with transgender identities commit sex offences at the same rate in the UK as female people?

Because for safeguarding principles to be robust, female people should not have to accept a sub group of male people with a higher risk of committing harm to them than the general female population.

Also, why should female people accept inclusion of a sub-group of male people just because that group of male people might be a vulnerable group? There are many other groups of vulnerable male people and not one of those other groups get access to the female single sex spaces. So, this is a type of discrimination against those other groups of male people.

If a group of male people need special provisions for any reason, other than being children, the answer is not to include them in the female single sex provision. Because that provision is not a 'all vulnerable people' provision. It is sex segregated based on safeguarding principles which looks at risk of harm of that group's inclusion.

It is now well established that male people with transgender identities do not lose their male physical advantages. Therefore, even just the risk of physical harm to female people is higher in those provisions if they are included. It is considered reasonable acceptable risk for a female person to get away from another female person, this is not the case when the general male population (even after suppressing testosterone) has a recognised and proven physical advantage.

I look forward to your explanation as to what you think this paper says and why it is at all relevant for allowing a group of male people to access female single sex provisions.

If transwomen didn’t use female only provision, women would be less hyper vigilant. Perhaps you can turn your attention to transwomen insisting that they will continue to use female only provision despite the supreme court clarification. If they, and trans allies, committed to transwomen not using female only provision, masculine females might feel less worried!

'Nonsense hysteria'.

how the fuck can you write that after reading that post??

It’s a very good question. What are your thoughts @CollsR?

More confused pals from across the pond.

quite - translation - ‘you silly little neurotic women’!

The answer is that males i e people born with a penis stay out of women's spaces. We need to keep saying that. For as long as it takes.

Ahhh... here we have the genital inspection fallacy.

Random people have always policed female single sex provisions that are publicly accessed. That is the nature of how they work. If a female person in that space sees something that makes her uncomfortable, she has options such as :

alerting others and leaving that space
contacting security
contacting the police

or all three.

First though, female people have to be clear about what is happening.

Female people are actually very reliable in correctly identifying a person's sex category. No genital inspections or discussions are needed and never were. Instead, as others have pointed out a person's skeletal proportions, their skull shapes even, their gait and their movements allow quick and reliable sex class identification. If all else fails, a verbal interaction will also help.

So, were you never aware that female people absolutely have been 'policing' their toilets and changing rooms for decades, or do you now just feel that it is a useful argument. Because it is actually another very weak argument that is flawed from the start.

Oh dear Steph, you've said that men in dresses 'aren't transgender.' They would disagree with you ~ and they'd be right to do so. That pesky little thing, self ID, seems to have passed you by. Let me explain it for you. 'Self ID' is what you think about yourself. It is not What Other People Think of You. Therefore, any man who declares himself a woman, no matter how hairy or masculine he may be, is a woman. HTH.

I mean, I know operation let them speak is very effective, but fuck me, sometimes it's really depressing.

I have C-PTSD. I can't use a public toilet if there are men, including transwomen, in there. If I'm feeling vulnerable, I won't if there's a chance a man, including a transwoman, will be in there. It's not worth risking flashbacks for days or weeks. When I have flashbacks, I relive my trauma, often several traumatic events. That means I re-experience the physical pain, the terror, all the memories that come flooding back and overwhelm me. I can't put how horrible it is into words.

How am I supposed to pee in privacy? You seem completely oblivious to the problems that women with trauma responses live with or how encountering men in private spaces will affect us..

I’m sorry. I am the same.

with this thread approaching 1k I can’t help but think @Steph2002dropped the grenade and then left. Which is ironic because this is exactly what has fuelled this issue. A man came along and stated something bonkers, us silly women then dared to say no, and repeat. Throw in a few thousand stories of harassment and abuse towards women and women losing jobs, reputations, actually being abused, and here we are. Also - am I the only one who’s suspicious of the name? I can’t help but think @Steph2002is Stephanie Davies from Portsmouth? 2002 was when he became a she surgically?