What's the deal guys?

[shadesOfTeal]

I don't think this post is going to last long but what's the deal with hating trans women so much? I've been a women for 13 years of my life since 18 and it's never been a problem. Suddenly I'm not only talk of the town but also an evil man stealing everyone's rights away from them? I wasn't much of a boy as a kid anyway but. I just wanted to ask like what's the deal? Why do you hate the idea of me existing so much? What have I personally done to you that's been so bad? I feel like I need to be careful with my words because it'll be easy to accuse me of all sorts but I've done no harm to anyone. If you want to ask a trans woman some honest questions then please do, I don't usually talk about it in my day to day life and that, I'm pretty down to earth and will help you understand as much as possible. But I'd like to ask the people that hate me so much, can we ever get along? Please don't assume I'm what the internet and the media says I am though, I'm not like that at all! I just want us all to get on and I'm sick of having my life debated every 5 minutes.

No self knowledge

the law is required to control men like this

Men like what, exactly?

Must be worrying for your family. You seem to be quite young and yet to learn that. Your friends aren’t affected in the same way as they won’t have to live with the consequences like family does

The ones with no respect for women’s boundaries. Duh

Really?

Your ‘nuance’ isn’t that you, personally, should be allowed to access female single sex provisions? Because you believe that you are ‘female’ now. Because you told us you went through a ‘female’ puberty and you are talking about your doctor taking you through ‘menopause’ and you are on ‘HRT’ ? That you have ‘female’ sex characteristics now so you are not male. Plus because no one will personally believe that you are male after all these decades?

You mean these points are not ones you have explained to us repeatedly already before you then declare that for those reasons you believe that you should be allowed to continue to access female single sex provisions?

Sure, you could be referring to a different ‘nuance’ when you replied to catiette. However, I was also talking generally about the dynamics of male people who in the past have told women ‘it is nuanced’.

Although, I think your posts on MN have very well followed that same dynamic that I described. Even down to the ‘I hear you, I think you have points about other male people, but I will continue to use whatever provisions I want to.’

That one was not new, but a classic non the less. And no apology forthcoming that I saw.

I came out more than 40 years ago. i started HRT 40 years ago as a teen. I had my sex reassignment surgery in my 20s. My mother accompanied me to my surgery. My parents have been hugely supportive for many decades and continue to be to this day into their 80s and 90s. I have very few friends from my childhood but they stopped mentioning anything about my transition 30 years ago. My husband and children are also very affected by my life, I'm sure.

So, yes I assume everyone must be affected in exactly the way you are inferring?

I see.

You think it is funny that you said something deeply misogynistic and people reacted.

The enlightenment keeps coming.

It isn't about a person's life, it is about their mental illness.

The only mental illness where everyone else in society is expected to endorse the sufferer's delusions.

There is a comment underneath one of the Times articles about the Rhode Island murders where someone castigates the Tol commentators for being ignorant, prejudiced and hateful bigots and then finishes his comment with the sentence:
"Quite a few of you in particular hate trans women and I suspect that is because you actually just hate men."
Not even people who accuse others of being bigots for not seeing transwomen as women can keep up the pretence.

The laws broken by trans people who exist. Not respecting all the boundaries. Understood.

I see. How many people have you diagnosed with this mental illness? Is it in the room with us now?

That is funny.

That is almost as funny as the street interviewers that mistakenly interview a female person as if they are a male person with a transgender identity at pride or a trans rights protest. And celebrate that person’s identity. The reaction of those women is remarkable considering the event they are attending.

Yep.

That first paragraph is a mangled recontextualisation of various facts I have conveyed here. I'm not asking anyone, here especially, to accept them or to be more obvious, be capable of believing them. They just are.

I am not here to negotiate. I am not here to ask permission. I am not here to apologise. My non-mumsnet presence is not challenging or challenged. I am a woman. There is no nuance.

I will support those who require nuance. I will support those who are challenged simply for being challenging. In the context of sex realism, all trans women are women.

Thinking you have to live your life defined by a 'gender' is as mad as thinking you have to starve your body to be an acceptable sort of thin. Thinking you have to live your life defined by the 'gender' associated with the opposite sex is madder.

We are not expected to pander to the delusions of anorexics, but some people expect us to pander to genderists. Nuts.

Any 'condition' that requires a healthy body be altered by hormones or surgery is clearly a mental health condition.

In the context of sex realism, all trans women are women.

No. This is nonsense. And there can be no reasonable discussion when one side is spouting such nonsense and demanding it should be taken seriously.

A defining feature of 'transwomen' is that they are men. Everybody knows that, including you.

”I'm not the cynic labeling someone's entire life as a lie.”

This really does get to the heart of the theory that if you say something is ‘x’, then it is what you say it is.

It also then supports the ‘near enough is good enough’ aspect. That as long as someone has modified their body to fit their subjective reality enough, they can then claim to have ‘lived experience’ as that subjective reality based on their philosophical belief. And can then attempt emotional manipulation through trying to evoke shame by telling someone that they are calling their life a lie.

The "pregnant people" terminology isn't about you OP. It's telling that you think it is but no, as with the rest of what you are blinkered about, it's about a group of women. Albeit women who would like to pretend they aren't women.

If you are in your 30s you are old enough to look beyond the "I' and "me".

Your comment about not being much of a boy is just bloody offensive. You might not have ticked many "boy" stereotypes as a kid but you aren't and never will be a woman as an adult. A woman isn't just not (much of a) man.

As for the rest of it - take it up with Stonewall and Good Law Project and everyone else who lied to you about your "rights" and what life would be like. Self ID was never the law. GRCs have limitations. Ask them why they are painting as losses what was never held in the first place and peddling narratives of hate and fear. Why they were so keen to mislead individuals and organisations and misrepresent the law.

If you are feeling a backlash day to day it's because the demands and expectations are unreasonable and people are saying no. No, they won't pretend to believe you are a woman, no they can't be compelled to treat you as such, no you aren't welcome in women's spaces and sports. But who told you it would be otherwise - it wasn't GC women was it? If you have made decisions about transition and lifestyle based on false information don't come blaming us.

There is a big difference between not giving something up and taking something away. GC women are doing the former. They aren't motivated by hate and they aren't the ones who have been lying to you all these years.

You’re not a woman in fact or in law

stay away from women’s stuff, it’s not for you

you won’t be able to accept this because you are operating under a delusion, but the law (and reality!) agrees with me

And the societal reaction is also telling. Although these days I think I'd say 'humours', rather than 'believes'.

I don't believe I share your definition of healthy—or, 'condition.'

I haven't thought about gender in the way you seem to believe I do in a very long time. Transition and surgery cured this, as it was intentended to. Really, it's only sex realists who want surgery and a history of transition to be the sole definition of my life.

”That first paragraph is a mangled recontextualisation of various facts I have conveyed here. I'm not asking anyone, here especially, to accept them or to be more obvious, be capable of believing them. They just are.”

They are not the female experiences you describe them as, no. They are specifically male experiences that you keep telling us are female experiences and that you therefore should be except to being excluded from female single sex provisions.

You also keep doubling down and telling us that you will still continue to use female single sex provisions even after we point out why you should not.

I have not ‘recontextualised’ your posts away from what they mean for female people and our needs.

And every single time you access a female single sex provision, you are demanding that female people accept your ‘facts’ as being those of a female person. So, again you are mistaken in your defence that you are not asking for people to believe you outside of your immediate support circle.

However, this post again shows how you need to compartmentalise information to make it fit what you need to believe and deny the harms to others.

I am a woman, legally, as any other woman who has immigrated to the UK.

Sex realists would agree with you. Maybe not anyone else.

“I will support those who require nuance. I will support those who are challenged simply for being challenging. In the context of sex realism, all trans women are women.”

This really didn’t make sense. It is word salad and incoherent. I am sure it sounded good when you wrote it.