Latest Girlguiding email this evening

[clementina25]

I have just received a new email from Girlguiding. They are planning on setting up a task force - 'Today, we're launching a taskforce to explore new opportunities for trans girls, trans young women and trans women. You can help us by sharing your ideas and/or expressing an interest in contributing to our taskforce. '
I'm thinking that it's really important that sex realists are included on this task force as I think that there will be pressure from the Trans handmaidens to change Girlguiding to a mixed sex organisation. Is there anyone else who has received this email and would be keen to collaborate?

Worth buying her a rape alarm and teaching her when it is okay to use it? I found having one really reassuring as a teenager, as I knew I could get a lot of attention to a problem even if I was struggling to speak up.

I hear you, I’ve also used them as a young woman but she’s only 7! We absolutely should be able to rely on leader to understand the potential risks and manage them, I don’t want to teach her about these risks beyond your body is yours and if anyone makes you uncomfortable etc. Plus she’d probably enjoy setting it off on purpose to impress her friends 😂

With our Beaver unit and mixed hall sleeping- the female Beaver leaders were in their own pop up tents in the hall with their tents making a barrier between boys and girls who were at each end of the hall. It was nearly a 50/50 b/g spilt and no male leaders.

DS scout group recently had a sleepover in a hall where kids slept in the main hall and leaders in a separate room. They made a barrier with the tables and chairs plus blankets down the middle to give separate areas. There was a briefing that no one was allowed in opposite sex area.
Male scout leader has a daughter in the unit.
But no idea what they'd have done with a transidentifed boy. Scouts are the same as us in that trans ID kids go where they feel comfortable...

Scouting leaders aren't allowed to sleep with young people.
It is not banned for Guiding but strongly discouraged. I would definitely not do it as it puts me in a vulnerable position.

My scout group (so 10 1/2 to 14) usually has enough girls on an event to mean that they have their own tent. I think sleeping accommodation is segregated by sex as a desirable rather than essential, and it does vary be context, and my group always gets parental permission if mixed is on the cards.
we have done it so that there is one girl in her own pod of a tent , and the other pod is boys, a girl with her own tent whilst the boys were in an old fashioned patrol tent, and an expedition where there was one girl and three boys and they all shared - they asked as a group and all the parents agreed . They were very snug in their tent but it did mean they only carried one.
in a hall sleepover adults are in the den/office, all the kids are in the hall and one end or corner is the girls, depending on numbers
we usually have at least one female leader (I do a LOT of camps) though POR doesn’t say this is necessary, it’s a preference, and can only be done if there are the leaders available. WEve had parents (perfectly reasonably) not happy with their daughters attending if there wasn’t a female leader

Honestly I'd just ask straight up on the basis that you are concerned. You aren't asking about a trans child in these circumstances. It's a straightforward safeguarding question on shared accommodation on sex. It's an appropriate question given there's some leeway on this.

DH would definitely rather have a conversation about this rather than let parents worry.

I'm struggling to understand how men who pretend to be women are being allowed to remain in women only roles until September??!

I mean, that they are in these roles at all is outrageous. This is an utter safeguarding failure.

@InSlovakiaTheCapitalOfCourseIsBratislava My DCs are in Scouts and the older one has epilepsy. We go on camp but at the latest one where I went it was indoors and I was the only female. The leaders ummed and ahed and asked the GSL and eventually said I should be with DS because adults aren't usually allowed in a room on their own.
Next time they go DH will be with them so he can share with the two male leaders!
But along with allowing girls to share with leaders I'm not sure if GG also allow adults to be in a one person room in which case putting the TIMs in a room on their own might be problematic - the Scouting rationale is that it's much easier to invite a child into your room if you have a single room.

scouts is very big on absolutely no one to one , which is definitely to the good

I'm so pissed off with Girlguiding. I complained and got this pathetic response. Boys should never have been allowed to join, and at the very latest should have been told to leave the day after the SC ruling. Nearly a year later and not only are they still attending they are being given until September to go. Come on Girlguiding, just admit you got it wrong!

"Thank you for your email and for taking the time to share your feedback and questions. I can hear how strongly you feel. We know parents and members will have different reactions to this policy change, and for some there will be a personal impact.

We would normally have an implementation period for any change for our members. The date of 6 September has been chosen to allow affected members and their families time to plan, prepare, access support, and decide when between now and September they feel ready to leave. It reflects feedback from volunteers and members, and our intention throughout is to act with kindness, care and respect to everyone."

What on earth do they need to plan and prepare? Just don't go. Here, I have prepared a plan - You know on a Tuesday night you put on your uniform and set off at 6pm and went to Guides? Well, don't do that anymore.
There you are, plan prepared and enacted.

Are there many other activities or roles where you can be ineligible to attend but decide for yourself when you feel ready to go? If I get made redundant tomorrow, can I say it's unkind and I'm not ready and just keep going in? Maybe until I have prepared a new plan/ job? And I want to make everyone at work pretend it's fine too.

Honestly, after the SC ruling I thought organisations would be panicking and backtracking to put things right and become, you know, lawful. I have been astounded by the procrastination and sheer brass necks.

I know this is a bit of a rant. What's tipped me is my 10 year old Brownie DD has this week heard on the radio about Girlguiding and then the Olympics and been utterly horrified to learn what nonsense has been happening. She doesn't believe boys can become girls however much they want to and she doesn't think it would be kinder to pretend they can. She chose Brownies because it is just girls. She also competes in swimming occasionally. She had a lot to say about it all but "THAT'S NOT FAIR!" would be a reasonable summary.

I did ask about the arrangements for both sexes for this hall sleepover and it went fine, I was just steeling myself to ask more after the response saying they don’t separate by sex - I feared it meant having to remove her and I didn’t want to deal with that yet.

BUT I’m glad to say, I spoke to another mum who has a girl in cubs in the same group and she said they’ve always separated by sex. I went back and read the email conversation I’d had with the leader and it said ‘tents are never mixed sex’. Phew phew phew. I think my worried brain read it as never single sex! After she’d been saying they wouldn’t separate by sex at a hall event like this. So I feel much better about it all. Still nervous about her going off with male leaders but I’m satisfied enough now that they get it and able to cheer her on.

What a load of bollocks in the Guardian today Girlguiding didn’t have to do this to its trans members. There was another way | Zoe Williams | The Guardian

She seems to think that the only legal reason boys can't join GG is because of the name.

Can anyone really be that stupid?

It seems then can 🙍

Poor old Zoe. So little clue about so much.

Can anyone really be that stupid?

It's Zoe Williams. She's had a lot of practice.

"Stasi-lite"

It's hard to be sure that piece isn't an attempt at satire, but assuming it should be read straight as it's in the Guardian.

In which case, what a load of incoherent nonsense from someone who clearly does not understand the FWS judgment or the single sex exception in the EA.

"Just change the name to KidGuiding and they can continue allowing some boys to join, but not others." [Paraphrasing]

Once again, Stock called it right when she said these people are just thick.

I just wanted to add that in Scouting there is segregation by section as well as (usually and where practical) by sex. So when we have young leaders (explorer section) they never share a sleeping space with Beavers/Cubs/or Scouts and not with adults either. And the 1-1 rules are strict too - safeguarding even says do not reply directly to a young person’s email or text - you have to include other adults on that conversation, by cc-ing parents etc. The young leaders also receive safeguarding training and do’s and don’t’s and all the young people will be supervised by adults along scouting ratios in addition to young leaders supporting.

Oh my, that Guardian article is enraging, isn't it?

Girlguiding didn’t have to address the supreme court judgment this way; it has centred notions of femaleness as an exclusive and fragile quality, in a way that seems counter to the spirit of its founders; it has been hurtful to its trans members. A name change might have been dicey for the brand. What it has done instead has capsized its identity.

Oh heaven forbid that the boys-who-think-they-are-girls should get their feelings hurt. Heaven forbid that an organisation set up explicitly for girls, should actually be for girls. What "identity" here is getting capsized? The "identity" as a girl-only organisation is being reimplemented. As for "femaleness...exclusive" (obviously so, exclusive of boys) as "fragile" (no, the girls are not fragile, they just want something not infiltrated by boys).

Fuck off Zoe.

I saw this old video with her in, the other day, I think it might give you your answer!

https://x.com/ella_m_whelan/status/1667240057722355712?s

I consider the separation by age even more important that the separation by sex. A five year old is much more vulnerable to a 15 year old, than a same age girl to boy.

Definitely. I usually aim to segregate by sex and by section, but in large rooms we tend to have girls at one end, boys at the other, with separate changing areas.

Just sent them my third email after they responded to my first two with tedious waffle as quoted by a PP above.

I have asked them again why it is that they are so disappointed that they now have legal backing to maintain their single sex status. I obviously don't hold my breath that I will receive any significant response.

UPDATE: This time I got an auto response saying they understand many people are sharing emotive and sensitive messages so they are prioritising some emails as they come in. They must be getting tons and I would put any money on most of them being variations on "this is good news, stop framing it as bad"

I don't know, they're probably being bombarded by random TRAs who have no connection to Girlguiding whatsoever.