Girlguiding - Supreme Court Decision email

[ProfMummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking]

Have just had an email from them...

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.

Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement.

I have to say, I'm having a busy week!

What is wrong with people? I don’t understand why anyone would be so happy to tear away something that gives a young person happiness and makes them feel included. And God forbid someone would show some humanity and show some regret for having to do so.

Boys have plenty of places to be included though, don't they?
We care about the girls who can't go to Guides because they need a space away from boys, or their parents want them in a single sex organisation due to their religion.
We care about girls who just WANT a single sex space.
I'm sorry that you don't like feminism that doesn't centre men and boys. But that's what feminism is.

I don't know whether I am more irritated or concerned that Girl Guides don't seem to understand how regressive their policy was. They weren't being 'inclusive'. They were just reinforcing stereotypes and teaching girls that their boundaries mean nothing.

Those who fully support people living their authentic lives without question this is Stefonknee who is apparently a 6 year old girl

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/transgender-father-stefonknee-wolscht-who-left-family-to-be-a-sixyearold-girl-uses-child-s-play-to-escape-adult-life-a6775051.html

Should Stefonknee be allowed to join girl guides?

If not, why not? By your logic she is a 6 year old girl after all...

What is wrong with people?

Whereas I am struggling to understand your reasoning.

I am sure that many boys would like to join friends and sisters at Guides and Brownies. Guides could become a mixed sex organisation and include them, or (as it has been forced to do) just make it clear that it's a single sex organisation.

Instead, up till now, its policy has been to promote the premise that boys and girls must conform to stereotypes, and anyone who doesn't conform has the wrong body. Girls who don't agree to this must be told that they should doubt what they can see, and that their boundaries are meaningless.

Sorry, but I'm don't see the humanity in any of that.

Can you really not see what was wrong with their previous policy?

Let's hope nobody in yours is ever a female who needs a single sex space. They'd clearly get no understanding or support from you if they were. Disgusting.

What motivation do you have to allow males into female spaces and shout down any safeguarding concerns?

I imagine that, many parents took their girls to Rainbows and Brownies assuming it’s a girls-only space. I know I was surprised when I realised that boys were allowed. It’s was not clear on their website at all.

Girl Guides didn't want gender non-conforming boys.

They only wanted boys who were prepared to toe the line and agree that their personality and interests were so abnormal for a boy that they must be a girl. They wanted total gender conformity.

Anyone who doesn’t understand the need for single sex organisations for girls and women must have had a very narrow and sheltered life. Otherwise I can’t understand their lack of compassion and empathy - what is wrong with these people?

Some people seem to forget that girlguiding UK is part of an international organisation. In other parts of the world, it is only allowed ro exist as it is a female only organisation, and girls don't have the luxury of identifying out of the system.

In the UK, for the most part, our children have the privilege of being able to do hobbies regardless of their sex, religion, sexuality, race... and indeed "gender".

Guides can show how inclusive they are by promoting that whatever gender the children identify as, that all girls (i.e. biologically female) are welcome.

(As a Scout leader... yes we except Trans children. We support them the same as any other. But we won't put anyone into a position where their sleeping arrangements make them uncomfortable... so no, they wouldn't be allowed to just choose an opposite sex tent for example. )

GG leader here - you are awesome 🙌

Including male children in a female single sex provision is not inclusive to those female children who need that provision to be female only.

Why should people ‘show some regret’ ? Empathy - sure. I can empathise that male children had been told by adults that they could access female single sex spaces when this was contradictory to the law and to the needs of the female children who need the group to be only female people. Those male
children should never have been accepted into the groups or told by adults that they were girl guides.

However, I also have empathy for the GG leaders who tried to raise the alarm about this issue and were demonised and silenced if they wanted to stay as leaders.

If a male child’s happiness is based on them being accepted as being a female child when they are materially not female, there are much more significant things to be concerned about in their life.

The safeguarding failure of GG around these male children accessing female single sex provisions is hugely concerning.

It's almost as if girls don't exist for you in any story. You automatically look at the story from the boy's point of view. You have a very severe case of what is known as 'himpathy'.

The GG org should certainly show some regret for ever allowing any boys to join GG. Cruel of adults to collude in a fantasy and then have to pull the magic rug out from under their feet.

Because categories exist for a reason.

I'm sure there are lots of teenagers who would absolutely love to be in the Brownies. In fact, I would probably love to be in the Brownies. It looks like lots of fun. But teenagers and adults can't join the Brownies, because it's for girls aged 7-10.

I expect some adults and teenagers feel sad about it, and no doubt they would feel especially sad if the Brownies had for some time been letting in a few teenagers they regarded as exceptions to the rule. But it doesn't matter if they feel sad, because the age limit exists for a reason. And if you're above that age limit, then there are plenty of other organisations you can join.

Boys have plenty of male and mixed sex groups where they can feel included.

It is such a testament to the entitlement of males that they think they should have access to everything, including groups which are only for girls. How selfish can you get?

Interesting comments on this LinkedIn post from the leader of The Directory of Social Change - people are being brave enough to calmly point out biological facts - rare in the Third Sector…

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214_i-an-deeply-dismayed-to-hear-that-girlguiding-activity-7401687869469392896-94-C?utm_medium=ios_app&rcm=ACoAAAMtzTsBsBmh0gzm3dMWHbi8G9ep3BMJmHM&utm_source=social_share_send&utm_campaign=copy_link

Those male children should never have been accepted into the groups or told by adults that they were girl guides.

And given that @KatieAlcock and Helen Watts raised concerns in 2018, they have had plenty of time to review their policies.

Are they still allowing male leaders who identify as female ? Because a few years ago wasn't there an issue with a TIM girl guiding leader who was being protected by the GGs organization despite him posting all these whacko photos of himself online doing strange things?

But the initial post from the leader of the Directory of Social Change is so confused:

I really hope that The Scouts retain their inclusive policy and welcome with open arms those girls who have been abandoned by the Guides.

The Guides are free to become a mixed sex organisation if they choose, and there is no suggestion that the Scouts will stop being one.

I’d also be highly surprised if the majority of the thousands of young girls currently in the Guides support this decision.

But if you are in the assumed minority of girls who need or want an organisation that excludes boys, presumably you aren't marginalised, but just a bitch.

Sorry, accidentally quoted the wrong post.

Thanks, that's interesting to read - and quite an unfortunate surname, isn't it?!

When I looked, the first comment was from somebody called David who gave what you would have thought was the common sense view (paraphrasing from memory): "Girls are female and transgirls are male, so of course the latter aren't included. The clue is in GIRL Guiding".

No nastiness or insults at all; just simple facts - but that comment went pooft very quickly. Unlike the BBC, they don't even replace it with "This comment has been removed because...." - it's just rewriting recent history, as if nobody had ever said it in the first place.

As cruel and inhumane as you see me for saying no to men, I see the same in people who are up for forcing women to accept men into their spaces.

But the difference is I do have sympathy for kids encouraged to think this was okay and they are the opposite sex and who are now in the middle of a shitstorm. While I see very little empathy from trans allies for girls who will have self excluded.