Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girlguiding - Supreme Court Decision email

518 replies

ProfMummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 02/12/2025 14:07

Have just had an email from them...

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.

Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:44

ProfessorBettyBooper · 04/12/2025 18:55

Isn't it just?!

Who also just happens to be a 'cis woman married to a cis woman' who totally thinks lesbians are just grand with jumping into bed with transwomen.

Righto.

My bet is a male getting off on upsetting those silly wimmin.

Datun · 05/12/2025 13:46

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:44

My bet is a male getting off on upsetting those silly wimmin.

Yes that poster forgot all about their two children and whether or not they could be in the guides, when they got all excited about demanding access to lesbians.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 05/12/2025 13:52

nicepotoftea · 05/12/2025 13:40

I don't think there is anything stopping anyone setting up an organisation for everyone who believes they have a female gender identity, as long as they include girls and boys equally.

What they can't do is include all girls regardless of their feelings about their identity, but only boys who comply with more narrow criteria.

I don't understand why this is a problem for them.

I think you are correct. Gender is not a protected characteristic within the EA 2010. If you want to legally exclude groups of people from joining I believe you need to rely on the shared characteristics passages relating to associations within the EA 2010.

You can have a group with a common interest and perhaps you could say 'female gender identity' is a common interest (but ugh the regressive stereotypes!!) and you could hope that the only people who would apply to join would be females and trans identyfying males but you would come unstuck if a male who didn't claim a special identity asked to join under the guise of being an 'ally'. This would no doubt defeat the purpose of the group becuase the trans males want to be in an exlusively female environment.

But IANAL and could have completely misinterpreted the impact of the EA 2010 in this area.

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:54

OneLoftyPombear · 04/12/2025 19:10

I’m a bit worried about this message, I’d rephrase as might make women who have been a victim of SA by another woman feel like it’s not as bad.
though going through that and what you went through is horrific and I’m sorry it happened to you

Please don't act like you care, by your own admission you want fully intact males in with female rape survivors and assault survivors. You want fully intact male undressing in female only change rooms and exposing their penis and testicles to them. So don't pretend you care when your ideology sees fully intact males traumatising and retraumatising women and little girls.

Lovelyview · 05/12/2025 13:56

LostMySocks · 05/12/2025 09:07

I say this in person to parents, friends and leaders In both Guides and Scouts.
I'd never put it on a Forum as there is so much abuse thrown at women.

That's great. So glad you're able to say this in person.

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 14:15

TheKeatingFive · 05/12/2025 13:31

I find it so strange that people keep parroting the TWAW line. They know it is false. Why do they keep lying about it?

It's a real worry. The law says they are wrong. Biology says they are wrong. So why do they lie? Calling a boy a girl. Next they'll call air water and water air. I can only imagine they are doing this deliberately to destroy safeguarding to allow males access to women and girls.

KilkennyCats · 05/12/2025 14:18

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 14:15

It's a real worry. The law says they are wrong. Biology says they are wrong. So why do they lie? Calling a boy a girl. Next they'll call air water and water air. I can only imagine they are doing this deliberately to destroy safeguarding to allow males access to women and girls.

Of course.
What other reason could there possibly be?
The terrifying thing is how many woman are cheerleading for it. It’s beyond belief, really.

nicepotoftea · 05/12/2025 14:27

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:54

Please don't act like you care, by your own admission you want fully intact males in with female rape survivors and assault survivors. You want fully intact male undressing in female only change rooms and exposing their penis and testicles to them. So don't pretend you care when your ideology sees fully intact males traumatising and retraumatising women and little girls.

"You can't talk about pregnancy and rape, because it might make people feel bad if they were sexually assaulted and couldn't become pregnant", is certainly a new way to try to silence women.

Helleofabore · 05/12/2025 14:30

OneLoftyPombear · 04/12/2025 19:10

I’m a bit worried about this message, I’d rephrase as might make women who have been a victim of SA by another woman feel like it’s not as bad.
though going through that and what you went through is horrific and I’m sorry it happened to you

Fuck!

I missed this one. selffellatingouroborosofhate the message is clear. You need to reframe your trauma and to use pombear's preferred language to discuss it.

But apparently, you are the issue and pombear is fucking righteous!

Helleofabore · 05/12/2025 17:36

This looks interesting to listen to as well and it seems to be relevant to this thread.

"The BBC is facing mounting accusations that it has failed to report impartially on transgender issues. A formal complaint has been sent to Ofcom by the Bayswater Support Group, which represents hundreds of parents who believe the broadcaster has promoted one-sided coverage of sex and gender. The group accuses senior editors of failing to reflect dissenting views, glossing over safeguarding concerns, and presenting gender identity as an uncontested fact.

Camilla Tominey and Tim Stanley are joined by parents of two young people who socially transitioned as teenagers. They describe how their children’s gender identities were affirmed at school during the Covid pandemic - in some cases without parental knowledge - and the lasting impact it has had on their families as the relationship with their children broke down.

They also discusses leaked allegations that the BBC’s coverage has been subject to internal censorship, alongside examples cited by critics - from reporting on puberty blockers to children’s television and drama - and the corporation’s response to claims of bias."

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/___bLIKDmqQ?si=-saFQJMzlB5PFQj2

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/12/2025 17:48

Ofcom had better watch themselves, too.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 05/12/2025 19:59

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:43

Yeah, it's an obscure number to land on. What happens at 4 that these children start thinking they're the wrong gender.

Speaking from experience, starting school and encountering institutional and widespread sexism for the first time.

School was were I was first made to wear a skirt and first got told that steam trains and cars and mechano are for boys. I like those things and really want to wear trousers, therefore I must be a boy.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 05/12/2025 20:04

ThatBlackCat · 05/12/2025 13:44

My bet is a male getting off on upsetting those silly wimmin.

🤮

Datun · 05/12/2025 20:16

Helleofabore · 05/12/2025 17:36

This looks interesting to listen to as well and it seems to be relevant to this thread.

"The BBC is facing mounting accusations that it has failed to report impartially on transgender issues. A formal complaint has been sent to Ofcom by the Bayswater Support Group, which represents hundreds of parents who believe the broadcaster has promoted one-sided coverage of sex and gender. The group accuses senior editors of failing to reflect dissenting views, glossing over safeguarding concerns, and presenting gender identity as an uncontested fact.

Camilla Tominey and Tim Stanley are joined by parents of two young people who socially transitioned as teenagers. They describe how their children’s gender identities were affirmed at school during the Covid pandemic - in some cases without parental knowledge - and the lasting impact it has had on their families as the relationship with their children broke down.

They also discusses leaked allegations that the BBC’s coverage has been subject to internal censorship, alongside examples cited by critics - from reporting on puberty blockers to children’s television and drama - and the corporation’s response to claims of bias."

Yeah, and let's talk about the massive bloody elephant in the room, AGP.

Let's see all the men practising AGP, in women's toilets, their changing rooms, department stores, girl guides, the WI, the lot.

They're not exactly backwards in coming forward. Let's see all the evidence. All the photos, all the bragging, all the, what is it again? Oh yes, gender euphoria.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/12/2025 21:01

OneLoftyPombear · 04/12/2025 18:36

Lesbians aren’t a monolith, and the idea that every single lesbian is repulsed by trans women is a myth pushed by a loud minority.

Real life isn’t a YouGov poll from 2019 or a Detroit study that conveniently only asked people who already hate the idea. Plenty of lesbians are perfectly happy dating, sleeping with, and loving trans women. You only have to look at actual relationships to see it.

Thousands of lesbians are partnered with trans women right now. They post on Reddit (r/actuallesbians has been full of happy trans/lesbian couples for years), they’re on TikTok, they’re at Pride holding hands, they’re getting married. The lesbian scene in cities like London, Manchester, Brighton and Glasgow is full of cis lesbians who actively seek out trans girlfriends because they’re attracted to women, full stop, not to a specific surgical history or chromosome checklist.

Sexual orientation is about gender, not genitals. The whole “nobody is attracted to a piece of paper” line from FWS was about legal sex for single-sex spaces, not about who you fall in love with.

Attraction is messy and individual. Some lesbians love trans women pre-op, some prefer post-op, some don’t care either way. Insisting every lesbian must reject trans women is just trying to police women’s sexuality all over again.

Lesbian bars and dating apps that are genuinely welcoming to trans women don’t “collapse”; they thrive. L-Word nights in Soho, the Her app’s trans-inclusive filters, Club Revenge in Brighton, they’re packed. The venues that struggle are the ones that deliberately exclude trans women and then wonder why younger lesbians walk away.

Being a lesbian means loving women. Trans women are women. If a lesbian is into her, great. If she isn’t, also fine, nobody is forcing anyone into bed. But pretending trans women have no place in lesbian spaces at all is gatekeeping, not protecting homosexuality. It just leaves happy, real-life lesbian/trans couples on the outside looking in, and that’s the actual homophobia.

Yes, there are studies and surveys showing that a notable portion of lesbians are open to dating trans women, though rates vary and attraction is always individual.

The most cited one is Blair and Hoskin’s 2019 study on dating preferences, with 958 participants (mostly young adults in North America). It found that 29 per cent of lesbians were willing to consider trans partners, though many showed a bias towards trans men over trans women (likely due to social stigmas around transfemininity). Still, that means nearly one in three lesbians in the sample were open in principle, and real-world anecdotes from the study and beyond confirm actual relationships happen.
A 2025 vignette study echoed this, finding 28.8 per cent of lesbian women interested in dating a transgender person.

A 2023 YouGov poll in the UK showed 84 per cent of cis lesbians holding a positive view of trans people, far higher than the general public, with many expressing support for trans inclusion in lesbian spaces and relationships.

A 2023 Reddit discussion in r/actuallesbians referenced a UK poll where 84 per cent of lesbians supported trans women (higher than any other cis group), and another stat showing 96 per cent of Gen Z lesbians are trans-positive, with a “significant chunk” willing to date trans women if they present femininely. Users there shared stories of long-term partnerships with trans women, pre- and post-op.
Justin Lehmiller’s 2018 survey of over 4,000 Americans found one in four women (including lesbians) had fantasised about sex with a trans partner, suggesting underlying attraction exists even if not always acted on.

These aren’t huge majorities, but they debunk the idea that no lesbians date trans women. Plenty do, as seen in communities like TikTok, Pride events, and apps like Her. It’s not about forcing attraction, just recognising that for many lesbians, trans women are women they can love.

so please see that you are speaking for Gen Z and my guess is you’re a 50 year old lady behind a keyboard who knows little.

I know this much. Those women having sex with men aren't lesbians. Whatever they might choose to call themselves. The men aren't lesbians either just FYI. No lesbians in those relationships at all. Heterosexuals all the way.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/12/2025 21:07

KilkennyCats · 04/12/2025 18:44

Can we assume your “wife” is male?

I was assuming Lofty was the male partner.
Either way, a man who thinks he's a lesbian woman is married to a woman who thinks she's a lesbian too and they have a kid who is a girl who thinks she's a boy... only in 2025. 🙄

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/12/2025 21:24

GailBlancheViola · 04/12/2025 19:14

Oh dear. No such thing as a 'cis' woman it is insulting and demeaning to apply a prefix to women in an attempt to make them a sub category of their own sex.

Trans people in the UK do not have the same rights as everyone else in several concrete ways.

A trans woman (even with a Gender Recognition Certificate) can be legally excluded from women’s refuges, hospital wards, prisons, changing rooms, toilets and support groups whenever the provider wants. A cis woman cannot be excluded from those same spaces.

Correct, transwomen are biologically male, they are men and the comparator for them is other men, not women and as other men are not entitled to access those facilities designated for members of the female sex it follows that transwomen are not either.

A trans woman is banned from competing in the female category of virtually every elite sport. Cis women face no such blanket ban.

Sport is segregated on the basis of sex, female sport is for females.

Trans people under 18 are banned from accessing puberty blockers or hormones on the NHS and now privately too, no matter what doctors or parents think is best. Cis teenagers with medical needs get treatment.

There are very good, well researched medical reasons for not dispensing puberty blockers. There is no right to unsafe medical treatment.

Adult trans people wait five to ten years for a first NHS appointment and many GPs still refuse to prescribe hormones even when told to by a specialist. Cis patients do not face that delay or refusal for comparable healthcare.

What comparable healthcare?

There is still no self-ID. Changing your birth certificate requires a panel, a dysphoria diagnosis and two years of evidence. Most countries in Europe ditched that system years ago.

Nor should there be Self-Id, so what if other countries have done so, a number of them are now finding out how disasterous that has been.

Even with a GRC your legal sex for the purposes of the Equality Act remains your birth sex, as confirmed by the Supreme Court this year. So the certificate changes almost nothing in practice.

No other person in the country can alter an official document which a Birth Certificate is, so trans people actually already have an extra right over and above the rest of the population.

Trans pupils can be forced to use facilities matching their birth sex and schools are now told to prioritise teaching “biological sex” over social transition.
Those are not theoretical gaps. They are daily,
enforceable differences in rights that no cis person has to deal with.

Trans pupils are treated the same as every other member of their sex and have exactly the same rights.

What you are arguing for is extra rights and privileges for trans people and the removal of rights from other groups. Nice to finally see that admitted and spelt out.

Exactly, that laundry list of trans "rights" isn't the gotcha Lofty thinks it is.

medievalpenny · 07/12/2025 21:27

MistyGreenAndBlue · 07/12/2025 21:24

Exactly, that laundry list of trans "rights" isn't the gotcha Lofty thinks it is.

When are they ever?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page