Survey on culture in the UK - 'trans rights' questions

[ArabellaSaurus]

New survey

19% of people say 'trans rights have not gone far enough' in the UK.
39% say 'trans rights have gone too far'.

That's a really big change in the past five years.

'The proportion who say transgender rights have gone too far in the UK has more than doubled since 2020, from 17% to 39%, though overall there is still no public consensus on the issue, with 19% now saying transgender rights have not gone far enough, 27% saying they’ve gone as far as they should, and a further 15% not giving an opinion.
The proportion of people who say transgender rights have gone too far has doubled among all age groups – even 16-24s, where one in five (19%) now feel this way, compared with around one in 10 (9%) in 2020. However, young people are still more likely to say transgender rights have not gone far enough (36%).'

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uks-sense-division-reaches-new-high-culture-war-tensions-grow-study-finds

Article:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/growing-number-of-britons-think-trans-rights-have-gone-too-far/

“And who person asks a female person if they need a tampon?

should be ‘And what male person asks a female person if they need a tampon?’

On top of that, that male person could be one with a tampon fetish and could be using tampons when they have no need to be inserting a tampon except as part of their fetish.

There are so many levels of wrong about that offer of a tampon that it is shining like a beacon!!!

Fuck. Seriously!! If some
people cannot see the inappropriate behaviour of a male person carrying tampons to offer to women who they think might need them, I think not much more needs to be said.

Or is it that some people actually think that male people need tampons if they have enough hormonal or surgical treatment?

No…. Just no. No male people go through menstruation. No matter how many of them try to convince the world that they do.

...Or someone is getting very busy with the polish.

I think this is actually far more common than we'd like to think with the MRAs who come here to "debate" with us.

I agree.

And yet, apparently there is nothing to see here at all…

You are wrong. The so-called Trans community have absolutely no desire to fit INTO society. They want to stand apart and above society and from there, dictate how the rest of us are allowed to speak, think, behave and feel. This is what I have seen.

They have infiltrated and coerced, public services, (police and NHS) businesses, political parties and even governments into validating their beliefs and bending to their demands. But fortunately, not the courts of law. At least, not all of them. This is NOT a marginalised or oppressed group of people at all. They have a terrifying amount of power. What you call "hate" and "bigotry" is people (mostly women) finally fighting back.

There is too much to believe in these posts.

I cannot believe that there are women totally happy to get changed down to their underwear in corridors with male people around either. Either those female people are vulnerable and have appalling boundaries or they feel that they have no choice. Just handling period days would be enough to be insisting adequate changing rooms.

That is one apt polishing gif!

Isn't it just! 😂

A man, Gnasher - who would have guessed? How old are you ? 12? 15?
It isn't trans 'hate' or transphobic to stand up for women's rights

Do yourself a favour Gnasher, and read a bit more around the subject and it might enlighten you. Though I doubt it somehow.

It was great. Pork fillet, flash fried, with onions, mushrooms, lots of garlic, smoked paprika and sour cream. Served with black rice.

This seems relevant here too.

https://x.com/jo_bartosch/status/1987613596700782828?s=46

“I’m grateful to trans activists in one respect: they’ve split public life neatly in two. On one side are those who repeat high status lies for clout; on the other, those with enough integrity to tell the truth. It’s a quick test of who deserves to be trusted.”

I'm a cis male who identifies as a male. man.

🙂

It's such a laughable contortion of language isn't it? 😂

Oh I'm so progressive and inclusive, and so is my workplace except towards women we all get down to our scudds with each other on the regular and no one is bothered except one person who doesn't count, wonder what sex they are?! I really care about everyone except women! Anyway here's my story about tampons apropos of nothing!

Aye right! 😂

Edited to add

I've been involved in these discussions for 40minutes years so I really know what I'm talking about because I'm a man! don't listen to your actual experience as women or pay attention to the piles and piles of evidence that prove me wrong, all the women I've spoken to about this are imaginary? Have no boundaries totally fine with random men trans women seeing them in a state of vulnerable undress and who cares about them anyway, they're only women fgs!

Verbollocks.

Also these

"It's not hate to defend your rights and it's not hate to speak the truth"
Magdalen Berns

https://x.com/anina_as/status/1834696699752616149?s=46

and

https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/magdalen-berns-truth-bombs-rude-liar-terf-gif-14405000

“I’d rather be rude than a fucking liar”!

I have lurked all the way through this thread and sat on my hands, so as to avoid a visit to the Norty step.

I have been musing about how to spot a TRA or a fetishist posing as a genuine poster.

And whether the time has come to just ignore them.

i know the argument goes that we should “play” with them in case new lurkers are around and we need to debunk whatever rehash is posited.

and in this case the poster eventually exposed what type he was.

it may be a stupid suggestion but when a “suspect” poster is spotted it might be worth asking them to explain who they are, in terms of biological sex, reason for visit to the thread, personal awareness, that sort of thing.

i say this because i have noticed that bad faith posters often forget what they have said and their storyline can change in terms of age, family etc.

so i think i might focus on those issues next time, as no need of assistance from me regarding facts and salient arguments.

thanks all the grand finale of this intervener was a bit of a shocker.

Your regular reminder.

The problem with militant transactivists isn't that they want equality. Its that they want to control women, the language of women and access to women.

Its not about 'just wanting to pee'. Its about the use of women as a comodity to validation. A third way as a suggestion is one that regularly crops up in these here parts, and every time it is tried in real world circumstances its rejected because there is no desire to 'compromise' or respect women's needs.

When normal safeguarding checks are proposed the response is frequently to shriek transphobic rather than address the issues that arise from giving exceptions away.

When we hear 'pronouns cost nothing, just be nice' we fail to understand the power of language and everything Orwell ever said. Its not cost free for women to call a male 'she'. Its showing deferrence in an act of selfharm.

The fact these things are being recognised as problems - ISN'T a rise in a lack inequality for trans people. Its a recognition that equality requires recognition of ALL parties and that militant transactivism is openly CAMPAIGNING AGAINST EQUALITY. Militant transactivism is openly homophobic and racist in addition to sexist.

when a “suspect” poster is spotted it might be worth asking them to explain who they are, in terms of biological sex, reason for visit to the thread, personal awareness, that sort of thing.

Unfortunately that requires some good faith discussion on the part of the TRA poster, and we know how that goes.

Posters can spend multiple threads just trying to get a straightforward answer out of them on simple questions. If you won't explain your position, it makes it hard for people to argue against, all the while leaving you free to fill a thread up with utter bullshit. This in turn causes more posts in response to counter and debunk the bullshit. It's how derailers mange to fill threads up so fast.

I swing between ignoring them and posting replies, but I think there is no hard and fast rule on how best to deal with them. I quite liked how everyone sort of agreed not to let the Sandie Peggie threads be derailed by Tandora while the tribunal was live, in that particular instance I think it was the right thing to do so we could all follow along with the tribunal uninterrupted. Tandora was instead diverted to their own thread(s, which went predictably), but I don't think all TRAs are as likely to be tempted away by the shiny lollipop of lots of lovely attention from the women elsewhere.

MRA love TRAs.
Why? Cos they get to pretend that feminism never happened.

"No one cares" "No one complained"

These are mantras that have massive cut through atm - we are seeing the public and public institutions massively at odds on this.

Except there are lots of people who know people care - because they are those people and for whatever reason they know they aren't speaking up/being heard. THATS the point.

Saying 'no one cares' because the system is rigged to reflect only what you want to hear, IS the point.

We have numerous public sector / private scandals where the institutions says they were unaware of problems because of an apparent lack of complaints, yet there's loads of evidence to be found to the contrary - but all point to a lack of public trust, a institutional policy of suppressing the complaints system in some way and cultures of not listening to certain groups - PARTICULARLY women.

You can draw a clear line connecting political hot potatoes of the past decade like the Post Office Scandal, Grooming Scandal, Maternity Scandals, Sexual Assaults in the NHS, Grenfell to name but a few... ALL have the same themes. Transactivism fits neatly with the same curve, and this is what is getting noticed.

Nick Wallis making the astute comment about this to Tim Davie and Tim Davie not getting it and being dismissive really sums it up in a neat nutshell.

And its precisely WHY we are seeing polling backlashes as people notice and get fed up of being told 'there's no problem' when they themselves have faced personal reasons of why it very much is not only a problem but a MASSIVE problem.

Women are not ALLOWED to say no.
If they do, its not a valid no, for some bullshit reason.
If they have a good reason, its not accepted because it was said in the wrong tone or manner and therefore 'insensitive' or 'rude'.
Or the timing is somehow 'inconvenient' or 'poorly timed' on the part of the speaker / writer.

Here's the thing. Everyone is starting to realise that politeness gets you fucking no where and didn't change still. They aren't taking the lip service anymore. They want action not spin and pacifying hot air.

This is the chickens of PR politics for the past 30 years, coming home to roost. The media is supposed to serve the public in holding power to account - power isn't being held to account therefore it no longer can rely on the support of the public - and people seek out alterative news sources due to a failure to rcognise this is how it works.

Its a grassroots spread of realising that theres a failure of representation.

And @Hedgehogsrightsarehumanrights another thing that's just occurred to me to say "out loud" is that I could say I'm a purple 7ft armadillo online, but that doesn't make it true obviously 😂

So if you ask a suspect poster to tell you who they are, in terms of biological sex, reason for visit to the thread, personal awareness etc, we can't be sure that any answer they give is going to be the actual truth.

We've had that a number of times before, the self proclaimed "woman" poster turns out to have been a man with a sparkly feeling in his head all along, one that is appropriating and contorting language as and when it suits him 🙄

I know it sounds obvious to remind people that anyone can say they are anyone online, but I think it can be easy for people to forget. Especially I think with the longer term TRA posters who have a more filled out "backstory".

I was thinking more on the lines of watching what they say and catching the inconsistencies out.

Sorry! I see what you mean now 😅

@RedToothBrush When we hear 'pronouns cost nothing, just be nice' we fail to understand the power of language and everything Orwell ever said. Its not cost free for women to call a male 'she'. Its showing deferrence in an act of selfharm.

If pronouns were not important, trans people wouldn't try to control other people's use of them.

Honestly I don't think it matters if their personas are fake, because who you think you are talking to shouldn't change your position. Maybe you'd be a little more careful of phrasing if someone seems fragile or likely to misinterpret/misrepresent, but the fundamental content won't change.

My arguments are strong and stand up and are the same whether I believe I am talking to a TW or a young #bekind woman or a patronising man or a mum who dosn't understand why people don't just let her lovely TW collegue pee where he wants.

Exactly.

All transactivism is about is power and control.

We KNOW that anorexia isn't driven primarily by not wanting to eat food - many people with anorexia KNOW they are too thin. They are compelled to do it because of a need to have power and control in their life often because they lack that sense elsewhere in their life.

We KNOW rape isn't a crime of sex but a crime of power and control.

These misnomers when it comes to misunderstanding the motivation of various things are not new.

We aren't prepared to see it with transactivism; it runs through it like rock. Without validation the whole thing falls apart. That's why validation is demanded. And anything which challenges that is framed as 'unkind', 'just being unaccepting', 'rude'. These are all shame words which are designed to elicit a response and force a change in behaviour.

Women merely saying No are met with a disproportionate level of response.

Power and control.

Once you see it, you can't unsee it.