Survey on culture in the UK - 'trans rights' questions

[ArabellaSaurus]

New survey

19% of people say 'trans rights have not gone far enough' in the UK.
39% say 'trans rights have gone too far'.

That's a really big change in the past five years.

'The proportion who say transgender rights have gone too far in the UK has more than doubled since 2020, from 17% to 39%, though overall there is still no public consensus on the issue, with 19% now saying transgender rights have not gone far enough, 27% saying they’ve gone as far as they should, and a further 15% not giving an opinion.
The proportion of people who say transgender rights have gone too far has doubled among all age groups – even 16-24s, where one in five (19%) now feel this way, compared with around one in 10 (9%) in 2020. However, young people are still more likely to say transgender rights have not gone far enough (36%).'

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uks-sense-division-reaches-new-high-culture-war-tensions-grow-study-finds

Article:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/growing-number-of-britons-think-trans-rights-have-gone-too-far/

What does this survey define as ‘trans’ and ‘trans rights’?

We need well defined parameters.

Exactly. It is such a nebulous question I would not know how to answer it. Does it mean legal rights or the rights some people wish were legal? Do most people even know what rights trans people currently have?

It's a very cursory question indeed. But still interesting to see the change in responses.

I agree @ArabellaSaurus- fascinating that it’s gone up so much. So most people think that “trans rights” shouldn’t be advanced any further.

I'd also like to know what trans rights mean. Is it the right to wear what they want and call themselves what they want? Because they have that already. What they don't have is the right to compel other people to pretend that they've changed sex. No one has the right to compel other people to conspire in a lie. In fact I would say its a human right not to be compelled to do so.

That's because they have over reached in trying to claim rights that other minorities haven't.

I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that it is crazy to allow one group to claim the rights that another group has. By thr way, many people would consider that suggesting that trans people are "new" is in fact transphobic.

What “basic human rights” do you feel trans people are lacking in the UK?

Trans rights literally have gone too far, thanks to Stonewall. Some people believe trans rights to use the toilet of their choice are being removed, but those “rights” never actually existed in the first place and trampled on single sex rights. The people voting that trans rights have gone too far are just stating facts established by the Supreme Court.

Someone once said "if you have a penis or have ever had a penis, you do not enter womens spaces"

I agree with this.
It's fair and doesnt remove any rights whatsoever.

It'd be good to have more detailed questions. But this.was one question among several, designed to assess what the survey terms 'culture wars' in the UK.

In itself, the responses to asking about 'culture wars' were interesting. I'd say the questions were fairly leading, asking whether culture wars were being fabricated for political gain. But the response seemed to push back on that claim.

Stupid headlines like ‘Trans Sport Ban’ don't help, when it comes to having an honest perspective. No ‘trans’ person is banned from participating in sport, unless - as with all other people - they are doping or otherwise cheating.

‘Trans’ people can participate in sports to their hearts’ content, in the correct sporting categories. Indeed, many open categories that they don’t want have been created, for all, alongside the distinct female category for biological women.

Thus everybody has the same rights to participate fairly.

Thanks Arabella, I agree this is really interesting. It would also be great if more detailed work could be done - using properly defined terms, and examining what, if any, additional rights trans people should have

However, I imagine that would be far too illuminating for most TRA’s to want, so anyone attempting to do that kind of research might be erm…. Discouraged

Interesting comments under the Unherd article, including one by Lang Cleg!

Who is Lang Cleg?

@Topopop what basic human rights do trans people not have?

Come off it. There are plenty of men who’ll claim women’s rights have gone too far. (Of course women aren’t a minority but that doesn’t make this notion any better!).

The (assumed, rather than actual legal) rights of trans people ‘went too far’ in many people’s view when they impacted women’s rights, obviously. Hopefully as organisations willingly or unwillingly comply with the Supreme Court clarification of the equality law to re-establish the appropriate balance of rights this particular aspect of the ‘culture wars’ will fade. Transactivist overreach has been particularly unhelpful to liberal/left parties (we can see this in the US too, obviously)

I think you have identified a good framework there, with both important tests.

The first part: deliver the same rights that everyone else has.

The second part: don’t violate the rights of others.

Put like that the survey finding makes total sense:

Part 1: Trans people in the UK have the same general rights as others and their group-based rights are protected in the same way as others via inclusion as a PC in EA2010.

Part 2: Trans rights claims have led to widespread unlawful violation of the rights of others, as protected under those same laws and others. Three major domains: sex-based rights; human rights of prisoners, patients, abuse victims and other vulnerable or marginalized people; and freedom of expression

Conclusion: trans rights, as actually practiced, have ‘gone too far’ in the UK mainly because of the widespread violation of rights they’ve entailed, far beyond the trade-offs needed to ensure everyone gets the ‘same rights’.

Again, I think you've got it.

What people are judging is whether trans rights claims seek to secure basic human rights that are lacking, or whether they are something else that is in fact harmful to basic human rights.

In my view, as actually practiced in the UK I think the evidence for the latter is now overwhelming.

Great to see that our Lang Cleg has made the number one comment underneath the Unherd article:

Lang Cleg
1 day ago

The problem with this is how are the surveyors and the surveyees defining “trans rights”. Because, as the Supreme Court decision illustrated, we’ve spent ten years with almost every institution getting them wrong. This is, at best, indicative of mood music.
Far clearer to ask about specific scenarios. Should children be medicalised? Should birth certificates be falsified? Should male rapists be sent to women’s prisons? Should employers mandate women undress in front of men in changing rooms? Should gay men be allowed to meet without women?

I don't think trans rights have gone too far; I feel the movement is more about being able/allowed to fit in to society though.
Needing the laws to change so a trans person has a legal right to defend themselves when attacked is what this is about.
Trans people do not 'choose' to be this way, why would someone choose to be such a targeted demographic?
I know a few and they are all really nice people.

Just because you and I do not understand what they are going through, didn't mean it is not genuine.

What do you mean a legal right to defend themselves when attacked?

What specifically do you think is needed beyond the current equality law which prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment?

@Gnasher1981 so because you know a few trans people who are nice do you think that men who identify as women are safer than other men?

I know a few teachers who are nice, do you think that means we can do away with DBS checks?