Scottish Government win review for the right to place men in women's prisons

[ArabellaSaurus]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

https://archive.ph/Dw1Wl

'SNP ministers are to fight in court to defend the right of biologically male criminals who identify as women to serve sentences in female jails.
A KC representing the Scottish government told a judge at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on Wednesday that self-ID policies in jails will remain a “live issue” in a new legal case, suggesting ministers are determined to keep them in place'

'Gerry Moynihan KC, representing the Scottish government, confirmed that controversial schools guidance, which allowed trans girls into female facilities and for biological boys to compete in female sports, had been “withdrawn”.

However, he confirmed that the Scottish government did not plan to back down on its prisons policy, which was rewritten after <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Dw1Wl/www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/nicola-sturgeon-trans-women-isla-bryson-77g8zzbll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Isla Bryson scandal but still allows male-born criminals to serve sentences in women’s jails if they say they identify as female.'.

'For Women Scotland had wanted their bid to have the schools and prisons policies “reduced”, meaning quashed by the courts, to be conducted under an “ordinary” procedure, which it was hoped would be quicker, cheaper and more straightforward than a judicial review.
However, Moynihan successfully argued that the case should instead proceed under the more complex route, a move likely to lead to increased costs for taxpayers'
...
'A timetable will be set in the coming weeks with a substantive hearing to decide matters expected to last two days.'

disgusting waste of tax payers money-why on earth shouldn't women have a single sex prison? Utterly ridiculous

Fighting with tax payer money to make sure men can be put in the female estate.

It’s so despicable it’s breathtaking but I’d expect nothing less from those that govern us up here.

Utter fuckers.

The Scottish govt yet again saying the quiet bits out loud. That the rights of all the male sex offenders, rapists, murderers etc who claim to be women, matter far more to them than women.

This is insane but it might be useful to see what arguments they could possibly make.

What a complete waste of tax payers money. Why is this the hill they want to die on?

FFS what arseholes.

This.

Appalling, but par for the course for SG. Where are the grown-ups?

It might actually be beneficial to have this argued in court though. The lack of legal basis for men in women’s prisons seems clear. Unless they want to make them all mixed.

'Rapist's Hill' has been a theme with some TRAs.

If men (who say they are women) aren't 'women', if they rape someone, they know that much of the public won't go along with calling men (who say they are women) 'women' even if they are law-abiding.

FFS

It is just relentless.

That’s the only hopeful scenario. Otherwise it’s total bollocks.

let's hope this is the mother of all Operation Let Them Speak actions.

It seems that each aspect of the rights to protect female people have to be fought in court.

Fuck that

Still very much a man's world.

There just a big bunch of wankers in the Scottish Government, just like the Welsh super council down the bay.

Is the Gaol Act of 1823 applicable in Scotland?

Yes. I hope this will lead to making it clear that men must NOT be held in women's prisons, in a way that makes it very difficult for anyone to try this shit again.

I wonder why Scotland made this subject their hill to die on. It’s interesting.

Why don't they just put them in their own section in a men's prison?

There really is something seriously disturbing about these politicians relentlessly pushing for these men to be in women's prisons.

This seems suicidal on the part of ScotGov.

Are they genuinely going to argue that men should be in prison with women? Even when the law is clear? Even when the media are going to have an absolute field day with this?

(Edit: spelling)

Why don't they just put them in their own section in a men's prison?

For the same reason unisex facilities are unacceptable to TW... They can't be real women unless they are sharing single sex spaces with women

There is, I believe, a wing on Saughton prison in Edinburgh where transwomen are sometimes placed - the Vulnerable prisoner unit.

https://www.sps.gov.uk/about-us/our-latest-news/policy-management-transgender-people-custody

'SPS will support people in custody that request assistance because they are considering transitioning. If the individual indicates that as part of their transition, they wish to be considered for a move to the estate which aligns with their gender identity, this will be considered through the Transgender Case Conference (TCC), which should take place, where reasonably practicable, within 72 hours of the individual making their desire to transition known. This policy does not apply to people who are gender diverse (for example, people who are non-binary or gender fluid), who will be managed in accordance with their sex at birth. '

'When a transgender person is admitted into custody, they should be considered on an individual basis as far as possible. However, if placing them in accommodation which accords with their affirmed gender gives rise to unacceptable risks that cannot be mitigated or this risk is as yet unknown, they will initially be located in an establishment that aligns with their sex assigned at birth. If a transgender woman meets the Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) criteria (see Annex 1 of this document), they will be admitted to accommodation in the male estate. '

'SPS’s policy position is that a person’s status as a transgender person does not automatically identify risks or vulnerability, nor that others who live and work within Scotland’s prisons are automatically at risk of harm from them. However, where evidence exists that the current or proposed arrangements for the management, or placement, of a transgender person in custody would be a risk to the safety of that person, another person living in custody, or to staff members (note the VAWG criteria in Annex 1 ), steps should be taken to ensure that this risk is minimised as far as practicable. These steps could include, but are not limited to:
• Placing the transgender person into an estate that does not align with their gender identity.
• Enhanced monitoring of the transgender person.
• Wlacement of the transgender person into a different area of the establishment where the risk can be acceptably mitigated and managed. '

That guidance came out late 2023/early 2024, but I expect they are revisiting it in light of the SC judgement.

Those who said it was silly and hyperbolic to believe that this was a serious, intentional attack on women's rights and equalities in law, have you all got the message now?

They are going to fight each and every step, to be allowed to legally subordinate women and for men to have the right in law to use women. On a binary, sexed basis. While wittering a lot of bullshit denying it and excusing it.

I don't seriously believe any of the fucking government parties, this decade has been the worst shower this country has ever seen.