Scottish Government win review for the right to place men in women's prisons

[ArabellaSaurus]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

https://archive.ph/Dw1Wl

'SNP ministers are to fight in court to defend the right of biologically male criminals who identify as women to serve sentences in female jails.
A KC representing the Scottish government told a judge at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on Wednesday that self-ID policies in jails will remain a “live issue” in a new legal case, suggesting ministers are determined to keep them in place'

'Gerry Moynihan KC, representing the Scottish government, confirmed that controversial schools guidance, which allowed trans girls into female facilities and for biological boys to compete in female sports, had been “withdrawn”.

However, he confirmed that the Scottish government did not plan to back down on its prisons policy, which was rewritten after <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Dw1Wl/www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/nicola-sturgeon-trans-women-isla-bryson-77g8zzbll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Isla Bryson scandal but still allows male-born criminals to serve sentences in women’s jails if they say they identify as female.'.

'For Women Scotland had wanted their bid to have the schools and prisons policies “reduced”, meaning quashed by the courts, to be conducted under an “ordinary” procedure, which it was hoped would be quicker, cheaper and more straightforward than a judicial review.
However, Moynihan successfully argued that the case should instead proceed under the more complex route, a move likely to lead to increased costs for taxpayers'
...
'A timetable will be set in the coming weeks with a substantive hearing to decide matters expected to last two days.'

There's a faint bell ringing here for me. Hoping it rings more loudly for someone else on this thread.
Didn't the movement to allow TIM into women's SSS start with prisons? The rationale being that prisons would be the easiest environment to break into on the grounds that women prisoners were below the radar for most people. Once they'd achieved that, and set a precedent, the TRAs could work up from there into more mainstream parts of everyday life.
I'm sure I read a document linked from a MN post which set this out explicitly.
If I'm right then it's hardly surprising that the figures behind this would fight hard to maintain the ground this position.

Yes, that rings a bell with me too. Wasn't there a James somebody pushing for it?

James Morton from the Scottish Trans Alliance or something like it?

FFS. Did they miss the whole Isla Bryson thing?

Yes.

But what the hell are the SNP playing at? Do they not realise that support for these policies is at an all time low and they are flushing even more votes down the toilet?

https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/category/james-morton/

'By getting people to accept you could house male rapists in female prisons they could push their other goals; men in single sex wards, girls forced to share changing rooms with boys and forcing to call James Morton a man and obvious blokes “women”. '

The SPS, an Executive Agency of the Scottish Government, only overturned their policy of self ID which meant that violent male sex offenders were placed in the female prison estate because of public backlash to the Isla Bryson situation. They simply wouldn't have changed it otherwise. Violent male offenders are still being placed in the female prison estate. The previous and current policy were heavily influenced by Scottish Trans who stated -

‘We strategized – we strategized – that by working intensively with the Scottish Prison Service to support them to include trans women as women on a self-declaration basis within very challenging circumstances, we would be able to ensure that all other public services should be able to do likewise’.

Vulnerable women have been deliberately thrown to the wolves at the behest of a lobbying group with undue influence with the Scottish Government.

How anyone can look at what the Scottish Government is doing without horrified incredulity is beyond me.

Maybe John Swinney had a look at the polls and thought "bloody hell, I simply can't face another 5 years in government, how do I get out of this without the Nationalists going berserk? Ooh, hang on, I know what I do, I do the stupidest thing any politician has every done, I bring a court case to allow men, including convicted rapists, being put into women's prison, nobody sane will vote for the SNP after that."

I hadn't realised "James Morton" was a woman.

That article is so depressing.

who is going to fight the Scottish government on this?

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/female-inmates-living-in-fear-of-abuse-by-trans-prisoners/

Thank you! I knew someone would know what I meant.

Thank you also to @Igneococcus and @WaitWhat23

Me neither.
Some women really hate women, don't they.

SPS’s policy position is that a person’s status as a transgender person does not automatically identify risks or vulnerability, nor that others who live and work within Scotland’s prisons are automatically at risk of harm from them.

It's not the prisoner being trans that's the problem, it's the prisoner being male in the female estate that's the problem. Elizabeth Fry figured this out 200 years ago.

I'm probably being obtuse, but wasn't the SC judgement meant to put a stop to this sort of thing?

They are on a hiding to nowhere after the Isla Bryson debacle. I really ender who is pushing this and how it got signed off.

Ffs! 😡

Maybe "James" was trying to prove her manliness by shitting on other women.

What I don't get is what they think will be the result for them if they win. It makes me wonder whether that's not their plan and they're actually thinking they'll lose while signalling they tried everything they could to uphold the ideology, without ending up with Isla Brysons all over the shop. Just me and my tinfoil hat, but there was something with a similar theme posted upthread:

Scotgov's usual impetus is to do something to allow them to blame Westminster and/or complain 'help! Help! I'm being oppressed!'.

The Scottish Government still haven't paid FWS the court costs (£600,00) that they were ordered to pay when they lost the case.

I assume the Scottish Government's plan is to continue to ignore the law, force women's groups to raise legal challenges, lose them, and then refuse to pay the costs. Or implement what they've been told to implement.

Rinse and repeat. With public money.

AFAIR the 'let them in' movement started in the 1990's with women's centres.

They think they are above the law. Theyve shown this over and over.

But who are they signalling to?

Lucy Hunter Blackburn (of MBM) probably put it best on Twitter -

'I think it's just because the relevant Ministers and SpAds are petulant, resentful, childish bad losers who are hoping to run FWS in to the ground financially before they have to pay them the costs awarded by the Supreme Court.'

I believe they still owe FWS their costs from the SC case.

Edited as I see that point has made.