Scottish Government win review for the right to place men in women's prisons

[ArabellaSaurus]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/snp-court-battle-to-allow-trans-women-in-female-prisons-rpn2dff79

https://archive.ph/Dw1Wl

'SNP ministers are to fight in court to defend the right of biologically male criminals who identify as women to serve sentences in female jails.
A KC representing the Scottish government told a judge at the Court of Session in Edinburgh on Wednesday that self-ID policies in jails will remain a “live issue” in a new legal case, suggesting ministers are determined to keep them in place'

'Gerry Moynihan KC, representing the Scottish government, confirmed that controversial schools guidance, which allowed trans girls into female facilities and for biological boys to compete in female sports, had been “withdrawn”.

However, he confirmed that the Scottish government did not plan to back down on its prisons policy, which was rewritten after <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/Dw1Wl/www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/nicola-sturgeon-trans-women-isla-bryson-77g8zzbll" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">the Isla Bryson scandal but still allows male-born criminals to serve sentences in women’s jails if they say they identify as female.'.

'For Women Scotland had wanted their bid to have the schools and prisons policies “reduced”, meaning quashed by the courts, to be conducted under an “ordinary” procedure, which it was hoped would be quicker, cheaper and more straightforward than a judicial review.
However, Moynihan successfully argued that the case should instead proceed under the more complex route, a move likely to lead to increased costs for taxpayers'
...
'A timetable will be set in the coming weeks with a substantive hearing to decide matters expected to last two days.'

Don't FWS have a rich friend who could bridge them the money rather than folding?

Your confusing them with TRA organisations and the millions they receive from governments, businesses and the likes of the Priztker family.

Fortunately FWS have the support of thousands of ordinary women willing to donate what they can afford.

Same question

jesus

oh how i love it when elected politicians behave like fucking crooks

and these loons will also think they're the good guys

Sounds like a great idea to have headlines about how the SNP Government are going to court to put male rapists In women’s prisons - in the run up to the Scottish elections.

I honestly don't know. Some imaginary large constituency with insane views.

But to return to my question, what would winning look like for SG?

Surely it's against the Geneva convention and the Supreme Court ruling?

This is bullshit.

We know from Sandie's tribunal that there are well read sections of the Scottish press that are definitely not captured by TWAW. I hope they go to town on it - and keep printing the photos of IB to go with it.

The Equality Act doesn't oblige prisons to offer single-sex accommodation. It doesn't oblige single-sex services, it only permits them. The single-sex loos in schools requirement is not in EA either, it's in the Schools Premises (England) Regulations 2010 for England, not sure where for the devolved nations.

And yes, it's batshit that this is the case. Elizabeth Fry would not be pleased.

Unrelated: someone liking one of my posts has named herself after the Irish-Scouse public health shero Kitty Wilkinson. I approve.

'Scotland' hasn't, the pathetic SNP have. They're losing popularity, thankfully.

I think they want out of goverment.
Tory are never going to win in Scotland.
Labour aren't exactly popular right now.

Are we going to end up with Reform?

Scotland didn't. The SNP, led by Sturgeon, have been tangled up in gender politics for years, utterly determined to foist their agenda on Scots.

Agree completely, the public simply won't stand for it. I am so grateful to the photographer who took the infamous 'pink leggings' picture and the newspaper who first published it. It was an absolute game-changer and I really don't believe there's any going back from it. Regardless of your stance on this issue, this is a massive political mistake from the SNP and will only bring them what they deserve. Fuckwits.

The Equality Act requires single sex spaces where mixed sex would lead to women suffering detriment - which quite clearly a mixed sex would as was recognised in 1823. And where single sex it must be single sex. It can not be women and some men.

I think we are going to end up with no clear winner and various coalition options and it's going to be one almighty mess.
I have no idea who I'm going to vote for come May, even my usual "who ever might have the slightest chance of getting the SNP out in my constituency" fallback is not really an option this time round.

I am always puzzled by the argument that the Equality Act 2010 doesn’t require people not to discriminate against women and girls.

This is the thing. They already have the means to protect vulnerable male prisoners from the general prison population in make prisons.

What they don’t currently have is the means to protect the general female prison population from resident male prisoners without violating human rights laws on solitary confinement etc.

The whole design of the Scottish Parliament is based around the need for coalitions with no clear winner. The idea being this requires a more consensus approach. One clear winner was never the intent of the designers (though the SNP have been a minority government for two cycles). The design has been a failure as it has allowed the SNP/Greens, with a Green presiding officer (voted on by MSPs so chosen by the parties in power) to avoid accountability in parliament and committees.

Yes, and someone, possibly Kemi Badenoch mentioned ages ago about the legal concept of ‘’where there is a right, there is a remedy’.

Meaning that for every legal right, there should be a corresponding legal remedy.

There are legal remedies that are applied for not providing single sex spaces (compulsion to provide, fines etc) so provision of single sex spaces is clearly recognised as a legal right and therefore must be provided.

Is my understanding as a non lawyer reading what expert lawyers have written.

I don't know who to vote for either next May. It's a total mess.

I'm so angry with the SNP and all their shrilling allies. It just feels so dystopian; how much my government hates me and all other women who live in this country.

The SC judgement was very clear that if something is divided by sex, then it must be on the basis of biological sex. So if you have a women's prison, it must be for women only.

Otherwise, they will have to make all prisons mixed sex and have no segregation/discrimination at all.

Thank you. The SNP/Scotgov does not represent the people of Scotland. I now consider it to be actively working against us.

I wonder if they even know themselves? I feel that they're so entangled in so much bullshit, they can't see up for down. Everything is reactive, nothing is based in reality, and they are I assume lost in some weird internecine world of their own made out of handshakes, secrets, desperation, and avoidance.

That’s why this action seems so bizarre. It’s so simple. I presume they’re not arguing that they want to make all prisons mixed sex, in which case they are going to lose this case (presuming FWS don’t run out of money first, which may be what the Scottish Government are counting on)