Glimmer: do you think this is acceptable?

[SpryReader]

A 17 year old committed suicide and this is his response. Does this sit right with you?

https://share.google/1scYYsCeJ6JU9ohlo

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/09/disturbing-leaks-from-us-gender-group-wpath-ring-alarm-bells-in-nhs

https://www.transgendertrend.com/wpath-mou-gender-ideology-uk/

'“In the summer, the health service apologised for a scandal in which a WPATH document, including a link to a website with graphic fictional depictions of child castration and sexual abuse, was uploaded to an NHS website” (Sanderson, 2022).
The incident was then the subject of a formal investigation by the Scottish National Specialist Service, as a Category 1 event. The latter is defined as one that “may have contributed to or resulted in permanent harm, for example death, intervention required to sustain life, severe financial loss (£>1m), ongoing national adverse publicity, or breach of highly sensitive personal information” (NSS, 2022: 3).
The NSS Cybersecurity team review reported the website content and recommended reporting the end website to Police Scotland. '

The systematic review you’ve linked doesn't say what you think it does. One thing that stands out is the following:
However, there is high subjectivity in the assessment of regret and lack of standardized questionnaires, which highlight the importance of developing validated questionnaires in this population
Study Selection. A total of 74 articles were identified in the search, and 2 additional records were identified through other sources. After the first-step screening process, 39 articles were relevant based on the information provided in their titles and abstracts. After the second-step process, a total of 27 articles were included in the systematic review and metanalysis (Fig. 1).
Quality Assessment. Based on the NIH quality assessment tool, the majority of article ranged between “poor” and “fair” categories

It sounds similar to the findings of the Cass report: there were very few clinical reviews / follow ups of good quality to show that drug / surgical interventions reduced suicidal ideations or indicate the true picture of regret.

Hahahaha as if you cite WPATH as a reliable and respected source.

Heard they're great for eunuch fetishes and telling the public that paedophiles are 'misunderstood' when they're not busy suppressing scientific evidence.

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-founding-wpath-academic-defended-nambla-leader-child-porn-and-worked-with-pro-pedophile-academic-journal/

Is safeguarding now ‘scoring political points’?

Oh dear, quoting WPATH et al has exposed you for the TRA you are. Tell us why you believe it to be ok to castrate young males?

Tell us why you believe you're qualified to know better? A degree in 'facebook' research?

Uh huh, & the Cass recommendations don't say what you think they do.

She kept it all going under 'research' conditions. Seems a few tweaks was all it took to back off political interference.

Surveys are notorious for not being ideal in terms of accuracy but are still roundly accepted as indicators in general & not just for gender affirming care. The point is the more you have the more solid the conclusions are likely to be.

Hahaha! First of all, I’m not deluded.

I’d argue that the first step towards this boy’s distress was the affirmation from the adults around him that yes, he was in fact a girl if he said so and he could receive medical treatment to make him more like a girl. Teachers, parents, friends, doctors, TRAs online…

https://di.aerzteblatt.de/int/archive/article/239563

German Study - 'Gender Identity Disorders Among Young People in Germany: Prevalence and Trends, 2013–2022'

'In the longitudinal cohort (n = 7885, 47.1% in the age group 20–24 years; 37.7% male), only 36.4% still had a confirmed F64 diagnosis after five years and diagnosis persistence was below 50% in all age groups* (range 27.3% [15–19-year-old females] to 49.7% [20–24-year-old males])'

In other words, most desist.

*coded psychiatric ICD-10 diagnosis F64 “gender identity disorders“ (transsexualism [F64.0], dual-role transvestism [F64.1], gender identity disorder of childhood [F64.2], other gender identity disorders [F64.8], gender identity disorder, unspecified [F64.9])

That is awful. He has missed the mark terribly with this comment.

https://archive.is/xqh4F

Coroner's report.

This sounds a tragic case, poor child. There certainly needs to be better help for children with depressive illnesses and possible mental health conditions.

'Leia reported intermittent low mood in 2024 which may have been a sign of a more serious underlying depressive illness and gender dysphoria which itself can contribute to low mood and be a symptom of a more serious mental health condition. '

It's unclear why the GP didn't investigate further or treat Leia's possible depressive illness and possible mental health condition.

This could be a sign of a grave issue which has been warned about repeatedly - comorbidities are often overlooked by children who are identifying as having gender dysphoria.

Does GIDS treat depressive illness?

I agree with this. Much of the success of the gender self-ID lobby has come from using cutesy language to disguise what is actually happening. Here are two:

Top surgery - double mastectomy performed on teenage girls and young women
Bottom surgery - surgery on the genitals with poor success rates and high infection risk

Plain language is better here.

I think a lot of people in this thread are extrapolating heavily from what the pink news article actually says so they can justify Glinner’s post.

It doesn’t mention, or imply, and support of surgical treatment for any trans people, let alone for under 18s. The references are to the waiting time to be seen by the gender clinic at all, for a first appointment to get specialist treatment.

I agree the headline and subheading a not OK as they attribute cause to specifically the wait time, when the coroner states it as one of a set of causes.

There is a full warning of content on suicide before the main article begins - but the headlines should be edited in my view as they’re misleading.

But there is not one single direct or implied reference to any physical treatment, including surgical.

But Glinner’s post was not in any way justified as a response to what’s written in the article. It was a truly horrible, brutal and nasty thing to write about a child who has died.

And deleting it doesn’t make it go away - as plenty of trans activists have found with the extensive memory and archiving off briefly public posts to bring them up again and again as proof of how bad that side of things can get.

If he’d posted to say the headlines were not Ok because the coroner verdict has it as preventable due to a set of causes including the wait times, then that’s fair criticism. But what he posted was not.

Those poor parents have enough to grieve over without trolling like that from a public figure with a massive and very active audience.

Thanks for providing Google's AI summary... Others have already responded regarding some of these (WPATH, really?!) and so I won't repeat, but an AI summary isn't what I was asking for, nor what you were proposing to evidence.

I think sometimes the people who feel most strongly about an issue aren"t the best at persuading other people.

I once saw Glinner on a programme talking about the issue and he spent most of the time talking about individuals with whom he was in conflict and whom most people would have never heard of. It wasn't the way to reach the undecided.

How would you feel if it was your child whose death was weaponised by Pink News?

How would you feel if it was your child whose death & Glinner’s swiftly (and rightly) deleted reaction to it was being plastered all over MumsNet?

By people like you who profess to care.

By ‘specialist treatment’ do you affirmation? Because affirmation is not treatment. Affirmation leads to irreversible harms such as sterilisation, destruction of sexual function, prevention of mental maturation, and makes it extremely hard for the person to come to terms with reality.

This boy was failed by the lack of proper, good-quality, compassionate, mental health care.

Assuming this is in reply to my post, no, that’s not what I mean, and it’s also not what the article says or implies.

Accessing specialist gender services can help young people navigate their mental health and figure out, with help, what’s best for them. Pink News reports that the coroner concluded the delay in accessing specialist treatment services contributed to their death, and that reducing wait times would be a positive step in response.

There’s nothing I can see in that article promoting or encouraging sterilisation. If you genuinely think there is, quote it here rather than inventing things.

This.

If young people had better mental health support and education that they are in the right body, their authentic self doesn't need modification, this may not have happened. Even now some of the posts are written to wrongly suggest mutilation is treatment.

But arent we told bodies don’t affirm gender? So why would he need gender affirming treatment?

Accessing specialist gender services can help young people navigate their mental health and figure out, with help, what’s best for them

Unfortunately this has very much not been the case. Cass and others reported that gender services overlooked and neglected possible comorbidities and tended to assume all dysphoria was due to gender incongruence.

It’s not paraphrasing the article at all.

Nowhere in that article is surgical intervention mentioned either directly or implied.

”The offensive material” is invented hyperbole being used to justify a post so offensive that even Glinner felt it ought to be deleted.

There are issue with cross NHS department working - I'm aware of one with someone with an eating disorder.

Children and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS) can be reluctant to take on low mood cases with other complex mental health diagnosis be that eating disorders, gender etc. They feel they don't have the expertise.

Not to go into too much detail here but behind suicidal thoughts are often a mistaken beliefs someone's problems are intractable and unsolvable. Here exacerbated by pro suicide websites which are really, really dangerous.

Unfortunately then the gender services often see the "solution" to be transitioning without considering other comorbidities.

I also feel some of the doom mongering falsehoods I see on trans websites dangerous i.e. that "we" want to eradicate trans / trans have no future in this country etc.

Which is probably one reason why coroner cited long wait times specifically rather than gender distress.

All in all the NHS needs to do better. Mental health services are not fit for purpose.