Always been GC, but now afraid I'm becoming transphobic

[HouseOfGuineaPigs]

I've always been gender critical and 100% in support of safe spaces for natal women only. I'm completely comfortable with being gender critical. But I'm concerned I've crossed a line into becoming a full on bigot, which is something I don't want to be. Due to my own background of mental health and trauma issues I follow pages on this issue on Facebook. I just saw one with a graphic post saying Using Preferred Pronouns Is Suicide Prevention and it made me want to scream and throw things.

I've been suicidal, I've attempted. I've battled see harm and self destructive behaviours since childhood. I should be sympathetic about the struggles people are having . But I feel manipulated seeing posts like that one. I use preferred names when I'm addressing trans persons. I am kind to them, I don't mention their issues. I treat them the same as anyone else. I will call a bloke Sue even if his real name is Bob, it feels odd, but I will do it to be respectful . But calling a he a she is a step too far. I would either use their name or use they.

Why do I feel so strongly that I'm being manipulated ? None of the trans people I know have abused me in any way. They haven't infringed on my boundaries . I have 2 trans friends, another who is non binary and 2 acquaintances. They have all been decent .

I just feel resentful that I'm being made to feel responsible for someone not taking their life because I don't affirm their identity ?

I'm horrible aren't I ? Please sort my head out !

You've no idea about my training or experience in any field.

" Noted academics". Yes, right! You mean like Sally Hines?

So why is that not about your family and hiw they raise people or at least their particular upbringing?

A woman I know of stole money from her husband's mum. Does that make all married women or even all women thieves?

People means all human beings, including the male ones, men and boys.

Only one section of 'people' can get pregnant.

Using 'pregnant people' is inexact and inaccurate. Deliberately so, of course.

Yes, I do think there should be monitoring by social services. It wouldn't need to be a full on child protection case...but follow ups, certainly.

I said it is very unlikely that you are an academic in psychology or psychiatry, just because it is very unlikely that a random person on the Internet is in a specific field we happen to be discussing. If you want to say that you are such an academic that has contributed to peer reviews research in this specific field, then I will stand corrected.

Are you?

Clearly the Tommy Robinson supporters are racist.

I can't believe you come into a feminist forum and claim wanting to protect women and girls is racist.

What is wrong with you?

Okay.

Exactly. Trust your instincts.

No it refers to any person who is pregnant. Some of those people don't want to be referred to as women and as a maternity HCP, it isn't my job to insist they are. Thanks to mumsnet.com, I appreciate that more than ever, now. So especially when I am talking about maternity service users in their entirety, I'll be using pregnant people from now on.

And this is from a midwife who has never even heard of a trans man being booked for maternity care in a hospital I've worked in. We had someone Non binary recently but I didn't look after them.

Thank you mumsnet for making me a better midwife for everyone who may conceive.

“They want trans people to suffer rejection and misery in every area of their life by everyone..only then will they be happy.”

Not one person in the UK should expect to have their personal belief about themselves accepted as material reality if it is not based on material reality. Are they free to have that belief? Yes. Does everyone have to act as if they too belief in that belief? No.

Laws and policies are based on reality. If a male person is excluded lawfully from female single sex provisions and feels that is rejection, then there must be support in place for that male person to cope with life’s decisions that follow the law.

What shouldn’t happen is that society be coerced, even if it is merely emotional coercion used, to act as if that person’s belief about themselves is based on reality. If you are in a professional situation, you may have to work on a solution that works for you while complying with your employment code of conduct.

He who? And what dose this unnamed man have to do with the FWR board or the mumsnet site in general?

Anyone that adds ‘phobic’ or ‘ist’ to a word does so only to shut you down and cease any kind of reasonable debate or discussion.

Did you see the chain of comments this was a response to?

I have no intention of jumping through any hoops.

This forum is full of 'random' people, yet 'random people' can also be professionals ( such as you claim) or have expertise in all manner of disciplines and areas - especialy on this forum; and this is why this board has been so influential and important over the years in pushing back against the madness and confusion of transgender ideology and gender identity theory - with its damaging impact on the established rights and protection of women and girls; and on vulnerable and confused children and adolescents, more generally.

So you'd automatically suspect that a pregnant trans man was abusive to their partner and investigate that rather than focus on their pregnancy and birth?

Again I’m not an HCP but all HCPs have a duty to report safeguarding concerns and by implication to be alert to them.

And based on one person from your family (where you came from and believe that someone must be abusive if they identify as trans)

You have just made a massive and hyperbolic leap. That is not what I said at all - that the “must be abusive”. I said I think they are more likely than average to be controlling, because they think they have a right to control others’ speech.

you think all trans people/trans men are like your relative?

No, and I didn’t say that, but my relative does have all the textbook associated conditions - SA survivor, autistic, lesbian - and IMO is using trans ID as a form of control, as we also see with conditions like anorexia.

No it couldn't be the culture of your family where it is obviously your way or the highway, as well demonstrated by your beliefs, it is because they identify as a man that these boundaries are necessary.

Nope, it is because they behave unreasonably, and people who don’t ID as trans are, shocker, allowed to have boundaries with people who do, as trans people are not actually unicorns with a free pass to treat people however they like.

It’s interesting that you have massively misrepresented several things I have said in order to whip up faux victimhood and the spectre of bigotry when actually I was talking about my reasonable with not to be controlled by people with a sexist agenda.

I am talking about HCPs challenging trans people about their identity instead of tackling their health issues. Someone's gender identity has no bearing on whether or not their baby is growing at a normal rate so why would it be any part of an appointment with a midwife?

Probably.

No one yet knows what the mother’s intake of wrong-sex hormones could do to the foetus, but it obviously can’t be healthy. If she stops taking the hormones before conceiving, could they still harm the baby? We don’t know because we’ve never carried out such experiments in the past.

When the child is born, presumably the parents will teach him/her that humans can be born in the wrong body. Messing with the child’s head from the start.

If they were not deleted, then have you considered at all that you have a particularly sensitive filter about what is acceptable or not. I often look at posts and wonder but I do trust the moderator team to do their job. They also delete your posts too. Or is that to be described as them applying biased criteria? Or is it your evidence that they delete opposing views? When it is highly likely that you have posted outside the talk guidelines that we all must abide by to remain posting here.

We seem to have drifted a bit off topic but I would expect a midwife to mainly be concerned about whether the mother was now or had been taking large doses of testosterone. If she's been taking cross-sex hormones then her baby is more likely to be premature and/or she's more likely to need a C-section due to vaginal atrophy. Use whatever pronouns the mother likes to her face but don't allow pronouns to confuse the physical reality.

"Again I’m not an HCP but all HCPs have a duty to report safeguarding concerns and by implication to be alert to them."

Yes but firstly youd have to prove that trans people are controlling and abusive to their partners at such a rate, that merely identifying as trans is a high risk factor for abuse. That is the only way just identifying as trans would be a safeguarding issue and escalated as such.

We screen everyone for abusive relationships. We act where we find abuse to be happening.

There is far more evidence to "watch" heterosexual families without trans identifying parents because of the incidence of males abusing their female partners. So every heterosexual couple, regardless of class or history, has more indications to watch for abuse than any trans parents.

But we just screen everyone regardless of gender or sexuality because a lot of you would have a major issue if we assumed your child might witness abuse just because you got knocked by a man.

Thats the kind of thing we may think about. Just like we consider what drugs anyone else who is pregnant might have taken.

A lot of women are on drugs to stabilise their mental health despite identifying as women. Mental health issues aren't just an epidemic among trans identifying people.

Many of these have risks associated to pregnancy outcomes. We are always considering that type of thing when planning pregnancy care. Also despite knowing that these women are mentally ill, they aren't automatically considered a safeguarding risk and we don't refer them to be "watched" by social services.

It's not progress though. It's conflating two different beliefs. One: that sex is real and it matters. Two: whatever different thing you're talking about- in this case reading childish and untrue things about sensitive issues in social media.

Many people have the critical thinking skills to differentiate these; many do not. It's the same everywhere - particularly with TRAs in my experience.

I am personally talking about providing maternity care to anyone who can conceive. Is that childish?

I think there is no consistency whatsoever to what is deleted and what isnt other than you can say what you want about trans people with no proof

I'd assume that they were not gender dysphoric, given that allowing a penis to be inserted into one's vagina resulting in a pregnancy is pretty much the most womanly thing it is possible for a woman to do.