student university toilets

[cigarsmokingwoman]

DD is a 1st year student at a university in Scotland and frequently comes home (she commutes) bursting because she doesn't want to use the student toilets which are apparently all unisex with urinals. She tells me she wanders the building in vain for a female only toilet and even tries going to other student buildings and cannot find them. Yesterday she says she was walking around for 20 minutes before giving up out of desperation and using the unisex one. I wonder how many other universities are the same? It's appalling. DD will not complain or cause a scene but it makes her very uncomfortable.

“As a male, you have the right to use a men's toilet”
Well why did the Supreme Court say a trans person can be excluded from spaces of their birth sex then? Either a trans person is treated completely as their birth sex and can access those space or they’re not. How does it make sense to say you’re really male or female but we might exclude you from spaces/services of your birth sex?

How far back are you going here? Transsexual people first started having medical treatment in the 1930s. Did all those people use spaces corresponding to birth sex or are you saying it was a “rule” because it fits your agenda?

I've already posted this, and the problem could well be that given this is Scotland calling a toilet as a "women's" toilet isn't going to stop men coming in.

Even as suggested by earlier OP post, the type of immature male who thinks it hilarious to make a woman feel uncomfortable rather than any committment to gender identity politics.

Again its the sort of think I would have thought for first year students that would be a welcome pack or online version, which would include a statement from the unversity to sex based rights.

In the free for all of student life, as has always happen women's voices are not going to be heard, and the boys out on their own will just see it as an opportunity to at best tease or worse bully women, especially those they feel are vulnerable.

I hope OP feels able to take up the suggestion that as DD is only 17 that the University has a responsibility towards her to feel safe and be able to make the most of having got a place at university.

I would go at this from a safeguarding point of view and a complaint about male behaviour.

https://www.stir.ac.uk/about/professional-services/student-academic-and-corporate-services/policy-and-planning/equality-diversity-and-inclusion/gender-equality/

I think it was just trans men and only in some few circumstances.
You should be fine in the men’s, I doubt they’ll be triggered by you.

It wasn’t. The draft EHRC guidance says it applies to trans men and women, and either way it still doesn’t make any sense. You can’t have it both ways. Either treat trans people entirely as their birth sex or admit the ruling is a joke and doesn’t make sense.

You don’t know me or how I’d be received in the men’s, and I have no interest in testing it because I’m not going to degrade myself.

Don’t degrade yourself going in the ladies either then. Also unknown how you’ll be received.

I know I’m received there just fine so there’s no need for you to worry about my safety

You're over-complicating things - generally speaking, it's biological males in the men's toilet, biological females in the women's toilet, and disabled people who need adaptations in the accessible toilet.

If people just respected those designations, you wouldn't need your 'what-ifs'.
There's no evidence that you'll be in any danger using the men's, as you used to previously.

The SC ruling was just a reminder that women's facilities are reserved for women, as in biological women, but that was always the case, even back in the 1930s.
It worked on the basis of men respecting women's designated spaces and vice versa. 'The good men stay out so the bad men stand out', as the saying says.

I certainly hope all the men you refer to - not that there were that many of them - did 'use spaces corresponding to birth sex', because otherwise they were using spaces designated for women, which would have been very disrespectful.

You really just want trans women in the men’s and trans men in the women’s and to call it job done? That works in GC fantasy land where you seem to delight in the idea of trans women using the men’s, but it doesn’t work in the real world. The Supreme Court acknowledged this by saying other provision should be made. I agree gender neutral fourth spaces can be a good option for some people, but I don’t think the general rule should be a segregate a whole class of people.

That works in GC fantasy land where you seem to delight in the idea of trans women using the men’s, but it doesn’t work in the real world.

It's really not the GC people who are living a fantasy.

Fucks sake @FancySheep can you just start your own thread?

This is not about you.

If this is true then your DD could approach student services or someone within her department for advice.

It feels like it when you see everything in back and white with no room for nuance. But sure I’m the one living a fantasy 🙄

Yes, yes, you are.

I’m the one living in the real world where being trans is a pretty irrelevant in my day to day life. And you’re here getting worked up into a frenzy over imaginary problems.

Look mate, we've been here for years being told that this issue is of no importance in real life and yet women have lost jobs, been cancelled for tweets, hounded out of friendship groups, have been called bigots and nazis and god knows what else, so someone (many) on your side of this argument clearly thinks it's a big enough issue to ruin women's (and some men's) lives over so stop being so fucking disingenuous. You're not a woman and you can never become one, stay out of women's spaces, it's really quite simple.

I agree that none of that should’ve happened and is awful no matter how detestable I personally find some of these people. You probably won’t believe me and that’s okay, but I do find myself agreeing with some GC positions. I don’t think male sex offenders should be in women’s prisons, I don’t think we should be inventing new terminology to placate a tiny number of people, I don’t think speech should be enforced, and I especially dislike trans activism. I don’t feel like those people speak for me at all. All I wanted was to transition and do my best to blend in so I can live life in peace without a fuss. And I have done that but now l feel like collateral damage in the fight against trans activism that I also disagree with

I am sorry if I'm derailing the original intent of the thread but...

I have a lot of sympathy for men who have transitioned surgically and who may well 'pass'.

However for each of them there are probably a handful who either just put a barret in their hair and some lippy or who try to look sexy with stick on boobs and high heels.

So FancySheep, do you think we should have different policies for the two extremes? And if so, where should the dividing line be? How can we specify 'passing' and how to tell someone they do not 'pass' enough? Is there a solution, do you think? Genital inspection?

There's women's toilets in the Cottrell building.
Hopefully your DD isn't too far from there?

This is something that I struggle with. I’ve surgically transitioned and seen to blend in well, but I know that isn’t the case for a lot of trans people. Some just can’t pass no matter how hard they try and some are very creepy and obviously have a fetish. I think people who are very obviously trans and will alarm women should keep out, but you can’t legislate for this. This leaves me and other people quietly living life in an awkward position. But I do think we’ll end up in a position where passing trans people will continue as before and others will be challenged.

i think it used to be understood by trans people that you have to make an effort to blend in and wait until you’re further into your transition to use spaces. That is what I did because I didn’t want my presence to make anyone uncomfortable.

You'd prefer to leave women feeling degraded?

If you genuinely pass, no-one will notice. But everyone would have to think you were a woman. As soon as one person sees that you are a man, that means that you don't pass always, you don't pass completely.

@FancySheep out of pure nosiness, do you work?

You can’t have it both ways. Either treat trans people entirely as their birth sex or admit the ruling is a joke and doesn’t make sense.

you honestly can’t grasp that there might just be a middle ground @FancySheep ?