student university toilets

[cigarsmokingwoman]

DD is a 1st year student at a university in Scotland and frequently comes home (she commutes) bursting because she doesn't want to use the student toilets which are apparently all unisex with urinals. She tells me she wanders the building in vain for a female only toilet and even tries going to other student buildings and cannot find them. Yesterday she says she was walking around for 20 minutes before giving up out of desperation and using the unisex one. I wonder how many other universities are the same? It's appalling. DD will not complain or cause a scene but it makes her very uncomfortable.

I'm sure if the poster thought that she wouldn't have started a thread about it, would she?

I spend some time on a university campus and whilst not had the urinal issue I have had the issue of toilet seats with pee all over them, seats left up and strong smells of urine. I now refuse to use mixed toilets and hunt for the female only ones which seem to be much cleaner.

My office has only unisex enclosed toilets with sinks. The women recently got together and collectively complained to the building management. The men were leaving them in a complete state. Pee all over the seats. Poo all in the bottom and they stank. We even had an incident where a man just walked in without thinking and started to pee with the door slightly ajar genuinely not thinking about that women might be walking past. I think they had to pretty much have a permanent cleaner to go in and make sure they were kept fresher.

One near me put “all gender” signs on the men’s (still with urinals)

I think this is common.."all gender" and one that says ,,"urinals" .which means they are single sex for men but not women.

Duplicate post

I can well believe this. Universities are falling over themselves to get rid of single sex toilets and replace them with mixed sex.

I knew it. I KNEW it would be bloody Stirling uni. My old uni. I got attacked (and kid you not) nearly bundled into a taxi by a group of male students on campus back in 2001 and they did.not.give.a.shit when I complained. I was doing a late night work at the computer lab (didn't have my own) and they followed me after coming out the union. I was in trackies and had a cap on with my wee backpack. So not exactly "asking for it".

Misogynistic to their core.

Single sex provision isn’t required if there are individual lockable mixed sex cubicles with a sink.

I’m trans and feel perfectly comfortable in traditional gendered bathrooms, or at least I did until recently. Now I should be using these gender neutral toilets that I also don’t like for the same reasons, so I do empathise with feeling uncomfortable, but these spaces are necessary if people like me can’t use traditional spaces.

Not sure why some are being quite hostile and being rude to OP and about her daughter.

At that age (18?) I was still quite shy or not good in new public situations. And can imagine trying to find out for myself (ie keeping a low profile) if there was a singe sex women's toilet.

Does the University not provide a map of the University buildings with info about where various facilities are including toilets?

And if on visiting them all they are all unisex, I would have thought she had the option to complain but ... can also see this might not be how she wants to start her University experience.

Is it possible FWS could give her advice. ie is the law in Scotland different. I thought even prior to the supreme court ruling public buildings should provide a range of toilets, ie single sex, gender neutral, disabled, and maybe with changing facilities.

I supose, ie supect the students union will not be sympathetic otherwise they should be the ones to help her.

As a first year does she get the option of some sort of personal support and if so can she not raise it with them about how it is impacting on her.

And it is irrelevant if others aren't bothered this is about her right to feel comfortable with what are basic facilities.

Not saying AI is totallly reliable, but this is what it says:

While specific campus maps detailing toilet locations aren't readily available online, University of Stirling likely provides single-sex (women's) toilets, as this is a legal requirement under UK employment law for staff facilities. To locate them, you should check the campus directory for building maps or inquire at an information desk upon arrival, as the University's online resources do not show detailed information on individual facilities.

How to Find Women's Toilets at Stirling University
Campus Directory & Maps: Look for building maps and directories on the University's official website or within the campus.
Information Desks: Visit an information desk on campus and ask for directions to the nearest women's toilets.
Signage: On-site, look for standard signage indicating single-sex toilets.

Legal Context for Toilets
Single-Sex Facilities:
Under the Equality Act 2010, service providers (like universities) can provide single-sex services, including toilets, and must have separate facilities for men and women in many contexts.
Employer Obligations:
For staff facilities, employers are legally required to provide separate, well-ventilated, and well-lit single-sex toilets for male and female staff under the 1992 Regulations.
Gender-Neutral Toilets:
Many institutions also offer gender-neutral facilities for trans and non-binary individuals, which can be helpful in situations where gendered bathrooms may be uncomfortable.

Sorry, but have found this map of the university grounds and has a search function.

And in asking for toilets says there are 2 that are female.

See https://www.stir.ac.uk/about/getting-here/getting-around-campus/

Of course it may well be that they aren't women only as per the supreme court ruling even though Scottish Parliament has said with the ruling sex should now mean biology.

And if the map is incorrect then she could complain about that, and where do they suggest that students who want single sex services as allowed for under the EA are meant to go. eg are there staff toilets that are single sex.

Having to use toilets where there are men using urinals is outrageous. I think your daughter would probably have a case for sex discrimination (all students are expected to use unisex toilets, but this affects only women adversely = indirect sex discrimination.)

sorry you had that experience @AstonsGerbil and @FancySheep I think you're talking out your arse.

DD is not the type to complain or draw attention to herself unfortunately and I doubt I'd get anywhere without her consent to complain. She tells me male students were openlly laughing at her discomfort in the union as she washed her hands whilst they peed.

PS DD is only 17

OP, I've pm'ed you.

In what way am I talking out of my arse?

Sorry to hear this.

I hope you didn't find my post/s critical.

I was trying to think of practical solutions that she could use to make her time are university more pleasant.

@FancySheep Kindly stop gaslighting people. You say that you're trans and you feel the same way about unisex toilets as the OP's DD. If you're a TM, you are presumably used to seeing men at urinals (by choice), so that won't upset you. If you're a TW, you have a penis yourself and have spent much, probably most of your life using urinals with other men. Your experience is in no way comparable.

@FancySheep Now I should be using these gender neutral toilets that I also don’t like for the same reasons, so I do empathise with feeling uncomfortable

presumably you’re joking here

You really don’t have a clue. I’m a transsexual woman and I’ve had reassignment surgery so no I don’t have a penis. I transitioned at 22 and have been living this way for the last 5 years and had surgery 3 years ago. Before feels like a lifetime ago now and sharing spaces with men feels undignified and unsafe now, so yes I do understand what it feels like

Complain. If she's 17, isn't that t a safeguarding issue? She's a minor.

So you shared urinals with other men your whole life up to age 22. You have presumably seen thousands of penises in your life. The OP's 17 year-old DD may well have seen none before being forced to by her university. You are also presumably far better able to defend yourself from any assault by a man than the OP's DD is. I note that you used female toilets for years, presumably without consent from the females who were using those toilets.

If she's only 17 I would complain. I would also mention the boys laughing. This is a safeguarding issue.

Everyone is entitled to single sex facilities for privacy and dignity, women more so due to the additional consideration of safety since 99% of sexual assaults are by men.

Stirling uni must provide single sex toilets, they can provide gender neutral ones by all means but it needs both. So basically at some point they've changed all the public toilets in the lecture buildings? Sneaky so and sos.

Does she have her own toilet in her room if she's living in the halls? I was in ASH and had an ensuite. This is a shit temporary solution but she could try and keep to her room when needing the loo. I am not advocating this as a solution for long term as it's discrimination and why should she have to suffer like this? But if she's not confrontational and won't raise it with student or staff support services then that's all I can think of. Or she could walk down to the hotel nearby and use there. Also a shit solution I know. But FFS. It shouldn't be happening at all. I'm sorry @cigarsmokingwoman and for your daughter. I was only 17 when I started there and god, it's hard finding your voice at first. I was quite vulnerable and naive x

Yeah, that’s not how toilets or any space works in real life. You don’t need to gather the consent of every single person to enter. And even if that were true, where does it leave me now? Would every single man consent to sharing a space with a trans woman? The Supreme Court even spoke on this issue in the ruling.

I may well be better able, but I certainly wouldn’t be able to as well as I did before I transitioned. Should I have to put myself at risk?

Single sex toilets (women's and men's) worked in the past because almost everyone respected the fact that they were only to be used by people of the designated sex. So no, no consent was needed - only females used the women's toilets and only males used the men's toilets. If on a rare occasion a man entered the women's toilets, you could protest / call the police etc. It's because an increasing number of men, including you, have broken that "rule", understood by everyone, that we are now in the position we're in. If males identifying as women, and males pretending to identify as women, had never started asserting the right to use the women's toilets, the OP's DD wouldn't be in the horrible situation she's in.
As a male, you have the right to use a men's toilet. You don't need the consent of the other male users. You seem to have been happy to see all women put at risk by having to submit to any male who wanted using the female toilets. And almost every woman will be weaker and less able to defend herself from assault than you are.

here is a map from the Stirling website showing separate male and female toilets in the main campus building. you and your DD can also have a careful look around on the map and identify appropriate loos in other buildings.

www.stir.ac.uk/about/getting-here/getting-around-campus/