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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men in women’s groups.

513 replies

gingangirly · 19/09/2025 10:43

Really unsure if I’m being unreasonable, but what do others think?

I belong to a FB group for women over 65 in my town. They have lots of get togethers, at least a couple a week. A few months ago there was a vote after a man requested to join. The overwhelming majority said no. If they want a similar group, start their own. Fair enough.

However there is a trans woman that has been welcomed with open arms. He would NOT pass as a woman, not quite a bloke in a wig but certainly you would know he was trans.

What do people think about this? Acceptable or not? I’m am totally the ‘live and let live’ but seems a bit disingenuous to ban men but not trans women?

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 14:47

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:32

How everyone is different. With different feelings. Different brains.

But when you say a man's feelings can make him a "woman", you aren't respecting that women are also different people with different feelings and different brains. You are presupposing there is something standardised about our brains which makes us feel like women that this man also has.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:51

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 14:43

Science disagrees. You are an entire living creature. Your body affects your brain, your moods, your emotions. Your life experiences are the expereinces of your body. It's not a meat sack that your brain pilots, it is you. Your "self" didn't exist without your body. Your "self" is created by living in your body. If you had had a different body, you would have become a different person.

Of course your body is living. Of course if your body is ill or damaged it will affect your life. But I am who I am regardless of my body. I could lose my legs and it wont change the fundamentals of who I am.

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 14:53

No person can understand who something 'feels' that is not their personal experience.

And no male person can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman. (or, who 'understands' their experience as being a 'woman's'.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.

Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

Sure a male person might ‘feel’ different than they label a stereotypical male person’s interaction with the world might be, but it is only based on that individual’s labelling behaviours and interactions using their sexist understanding of the world. All they are really doing is incorrectly labelling their own male perspective and interactions because they reject what they, personally, perceive as what being male means.

There is no possible way for someone to have the ‘wrong body’. They can only have the body they don’t want to have.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:54

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 14:45

I mean, that's fine and I appreciate your input. But it's pretty extreme to say that a man who thinks he is a woman is actually, really more like a woman than other men. So people are going to want to understand what you mean by that.

If I felt I was supposed to be born a man and decided to go down the route of changing my appearance or having surgery or just being out as trans, I would like to think I could join a men's club. So therefore I can see it from a trans person's perspective. But at the same time I'm a realist so I can also accept that some men wouldnt want that in their club.

AnSolas · 19/09/2025 14:55

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:14

You would need to ask a transwoman. But I can understand how you can feel you were born into the wrong body. I didnt realise my opinion was so important to so many people!

If you can explain your opinion it is important as it helps other posters to understand the point you are trying to make.

If you can not explain what it is you think the feeling is then how can it be in any way logical to claim you have worked out what makes the two men who both want to join the FB group different.

Wrong body?
Are you trying to say that its a mental health issue?

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 14:57

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 14:47

But when you say a man's feelings can make him a "woman", you aren't respecting that women are also different people with different feelings and different brains. You are presupposing there is something standardised about our brains which makes us feel like women that this man also has.

This is it.

It all resolves to people’s personal stereotypes of male and female. And it is an act of sexism to limit any type of behaviour or reaction to the world as being ‘typically’ male or female to then label someone as male or female based on these perceptions.

Or using the same limited stereotypes to reject their materially real sex.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:57

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 14:47

But when you say a man's feelings can make him a "woman", you aren't respecting that women are also different people with different feelings and different brains. You are presupposing there is something standardised about our brains which makes us feel like women that this man also has.

That's not what I'm saying at all. All humans are different, all men and all women are all different. I also dont think they are women btw.

Cbamuch · 19/09/2025 14:58

CrocsNotDocs · 19/09/2025 10:56

Leave now. He will destroy the group and make it all about him. He will control what can and cannot be discussed. Some members will pander to him and will turn on members who don’t do the same. He specifically chose a woman only group on purpose so he can get his lady feelz validation. He probably goes home and has validation wanks.

It took 3 weeks for my 10 year plus local women only group to implode when a TIM joined.

this. These men go out to destroy everything that women have.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:00

AnSolas · 19/09/2025 14:55

If you can explain your opinion it is important as it helps other posters to understand the point you are trying to make.

If you can not explain what it is you think the feeling is then how can it be in any way logical to claim you have worked out what makes the two men who both want to join the FB group different.

Wrong body?
Are you trying to say that its a mental health issue?

All I am saying is I don't have an issue with it, for all the reasons I've explained. That's it! If you dont understand how I feel that's ok I dont mind. I'm happy with my outlook and accepting different people as long as they are good decent human beings.

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 15:01

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:54

If I felt I was supposed to be born a man and decided to go down the route of changing my appearance or having surgery or just being out as trans, I would like to think I could join a men's club. So therefore I can see it from a trans person's perspective. But at the same time I'm a realist so I can also accept that some men wouldnt want that in their club.

Why should men accept you as being a ‘man’ when you are not and it is just your feelings?

Again, we keep cycling around on this.

It really seems to be that you believe an impossibility as being possible, and you expect others to act as if they too believe that impossibility too and accept those who demand to be treated as if the impossibility is possible.

Based on what? Being kind? Being open to impossibilities being possible?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 15:01

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:51

Of course your body is living. Of course if your body is ill or damaged it will affect your life. But I am who I am regardless of my body. I could lose my legs and it wont change the fundamentals of who I am.

Yes are making my point, although you don't see it yet.

You look at yourself today and say "if I lost my legs I'd be the same person".

But if you had been born without legs do you think you would be the same person today that you grew into with legs?

And if you lost your legs today, do you think the person you will be in twenty years time is the same as you will be if you don't lose your legs?

The trans women is like you losing your legs today. He's not a "woman", he's the person who has been male since the day he was born and whose entire experience of life is of a male person. And deciding today he's a woman doesn't change any of that, no more than you losing your legs today changes you into a person who has never known what it is to have legs.

Cbamuch · 19/09/2025 15:02

SirEctor · 19/09/2025 11:27

OP, I suspect that since it is an informal group and you surely can't be bothered with the hassle of taking legal action, you could try making your case (which is correct) but be prepared that it might cause a big argument and ruin the group anyway.

It's a real shame and it shouldn't happen, but realistically I'm not sure what you can do apart from make the argument and create a separate group with the women who agree with you.

But hopefully another woman WILL take legal action. This is what seems to need to happen as these narcissistic men try to ruin everything women have.

childofthe607080s · 19/09/2025 15:02

Many people might feel they were born in the wrong body

but that should be untangled because clearly it’s codswallop - I mean whatever you believe their is no evidence of a soul or whatever that exists independently of the body / your mind and consciousness is a product of your specific body and can’t be wrong

what can be wrong is the assumptions people make as a result of you having a particular body type

SternJoyousBeev2 · 19/09/2025 15:04

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:57

That's not what I'm saying at all. All humans are different, all men and all women are all different. I also dont think they are women btw.

I also dont think they are women btw.

so why allow them to join the women’s group? What about the other man? He could have issues about his self image but be passionate about the subject matter of the group and therefore really benefit from membership? Don’t you consider his feelings? Why are the feelings of the trans identifying man given more weight?

AnSolas · 19/09/2025 15:08

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:00

All I am saying is I don't have an issue with it, for all the reasons I've explained. That's it! If you dont understand how I feel that's ok I dont mind. I'm happy with my outlook and accepting different people as long as they are good decent human beings.

How can anyone understand how you feel?

You need to be able to put words together to begin to have a conversation

So far you have conveyed that you think that women have some type of commonality of feelings which some but not all men can have.

Some kind of "Ladybrain"

But you are no able to convey what you think these feelings may be.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:10

Helleofabore · 19/09/2025 15:01

Why should men accept you as being a ‘man’ when you are not and it is just your feelings?

Again, we keep cycling around on this.

It really seems to be that you believe an impossibility as being possible, and you expect others to act as if they too believe that impossibility too and accept those who demand to be treated as if the impossibility is possible.

Based on what? Being kind? Being open to impossibilities being possible?

It's not impossible to feel however a person feels.

CameltoeParkerBowles · 19/09/2025 15:10

CrocsNotDocs · 19/09/2025 10:56

Leave now. He will destroy the group and make it all about him. He will control what can and cannot be discussed. Some members will pander to him and will turn on members who don’t do the same. He specifically chose a woman only group on purpose so he can get his lady feelz validation. He probably goes home and has validation wanks.

It took 3 weeks for my 10 year plus local women only group to implode when a TIM joined.

This!

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:12

FlirtsWithRhinos · 19/09/2025 15:01

Yes are making my point, although you don't see it yet.

You look at yourself today and say "if I lost my legs I'd be the same person".

But if you had been born without legs do you think you would be the same person today that you grew into with legs?

And if you lost your legs today, do you think the person you will be in twenty years time is the same as you will be if you don't lose your legs?

The trans women is like you losing your legs today. He's not a "woman", he's the person who has been male since the day he was born and whose entire experience of life is of a male person. And deciding today he's a woman doesn't change any of that, no more than you losing your legs today changes you into a person who has never known what it is to have legs.

Well I think you are talking about the environmentally affected part of what makes us us. There is the other half of what makes us us which is our own brain.

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:14

SternJoyousBeev2 · 19/09/2025 15:04

I also dont think they are women btw.

so why allow them to join the women’s group? What about the other man? He could have issues about his self image but be passionate about the subject matter of the group and therefore really benefit from membership? Don’t you consider his feelings? Why are the feelings of the trans identifying man given more weight?

I've explained all this over a few pages now. I'm not repeating it all

childofthe607080s · 19/09/2025 15:15

But the brain is stuffed full of xy genes isn’t it? It can’t change

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:15

AnSolas · 19/09/2025 15:08

How can anyone understand how you feel?

You need to be able to put words together to begin to have a conversation

So far you have conveyed that you think that women have some type of commonality of feelings which some but not all men can have.

Some kind of "Ladybrain"

But you are no able to convey what you think these feelings may be.

I've explained everything over a few pages. I'm not repeating it all.

And no that's not what I have said.

Arran2024 · 19/09/2025 15:18

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 14:34

Well that's up to the group in question. I'm saying I would have no issue with a trans woman joining a women's group that I was a member of.

Why? Men tend to be dominant in a group of women. They are socialised to be bolder, more competitive, to take the lead. They can take all the attention. They are not brought up to prioritise being kind and lovely like a lot of women are.

I have been around trans women and they use up the space around them in a way few women do. You just have to stand next to a trans woman in a queue to experience this.

It is not ok. Plenty of women find it unacceptable. If you say it's ok you are destroying their right to single sex spaces - only of course you can't due to the Supreme Court judgement.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 19/09/2025 15:20

Anchorage56 · 19/09/2025 15:14

I've explained all this over a few pages now. I'm not repeating it all

I disagree. You have not explained the difference between the two men.

childofthe607080s · 19/09/2025 15:23

I think she is saying lady soul not lady brain

equally offensive but since no one can disprove the existence of a soul it takes it out of the realm of scientific debate and down the rabbit hole of belief

Arran2024 · 19/09/2025 15:36

Men might think one thing in their brain but that doesn't mean that should take priority when it comes to how they interact with the rest of society. He says he's a woman, I say he isn't. How come he gets to dictate what happens next?

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