Men in women’s groups.

[gingangirly]

Really unsure if I’m being unreasonable, but what do others think?

I belong to a FB group for women over 65 in my town. They have lots of get togethers, at least a couple a week. A few months ago there was a vote after a man requested to join. The overwhelming majority said no. If they want a similar group, start their own. Fair enough.

However there is a trans woman that has been welcomed with open arms. He would NOT pass as a woman, not quite a bloke in a wig but certainly you would know he was trans.

What do people think about this? Acceptable or not? I’m am totally the ‘live and let live’ but seems a bit disingenuous to ban men but not trans women?

Hi @Anchorage56 sorry if you feel you're getting lots of questions, but I have another one for you - do you see the brain and body as being different - if so how?

Understanding of what?

But if the group is for females a trans identifying male has no business being permitted to join as they are indisputably not female.

But the non trans identifying male is at least interested in the subject matter of the group. Why should he be excluded?

But there is no possibility.

The only way these male people categorise themselves as ‘female’ is by their own sexist perceptions of what being female is. Or because they reject their materially objective sex for any reason. Their ‘feeling’ is not based on anything that doesn’t involve one of these points.

The only body someone can have is their own.

So, again, can you explain with a coherent and logically consistent explanation why you are prepared to make an allowance for ‘sex’ to be treated as ‘possible’.

It's so saddening and maddening that some people still can't just respect the fact that many women want single sex spaces. And by that I mean spaces that are only for adult human biological females. A trans woman being let into the group is no different to a man being let into a group. The only reason they can call themselves women is with the trans before it because they are actually men. How do some people not get that yet? Maybe there needs to be disclaimers on things that are supposed to be single sex spaces saying that if you own or have ever owned a penis you are not welcome here. I mean ffs it's so ridiculous that women aren't allowed to have all women groups without a fucking man, even if said man wears a dress, trying to make himself a part of it. Like how dare women presume they're allowed any fucking space without a penis in the vicinity 😡 sorry for the rant but just fuck off already all those men and also the women who support the be kind bullshit that got us here

The brain and body are not separate. The brain is part of the body. Every experience you have ever had is an experience of your body.

The imagination is arguably separate. One can imagine what it's like to be the brain from a different type of body, or a different place or class or age or time.

But it's just imaginary. In reality it's got nothing to do with the reality of being born the other sex or a in different place or class or age or time.

It's all still based on the experiences and thoughts of the brain in the body you actually have.

Because the body can sometimes go 'wrong'. Your brain can be made up the same as the next person but you could be born without 10 fingers or toes for example.

I might want to make male friends and so I might start going to football matches, joining a pub quiz team etc where men would be present and they would accept that women would be present too. What I wouldnt do is turn up at a men's shed type event, which is for men.

A trans woman who wants female friends has loads of options. But of course they want the whole world to accept they really are women and so that's why they want into the women only group. It's about affirmation

How everyone is different. With different feelings. Different brains.

That doesn’t mean that you have been born in the wrong body.

Or are you trying to argue that being trans is the same as having a DSD?

Yes.

Everyone is different but why does that justify allowing the trans identifying man into the group but rejecting the other man?

Well that's up to the group in question. I'm saying I would have no issue with a trans woman joining a women's group that I was a member of.

But that still doesn't make the man a woman though. Why should a mans feelings trump a group of womens feelings about wanting single sex only spaces? Real female only

I think the brain is who you are, your body is just your vehicle.

It doesnt have to. Just my opinion.

But the important question is would you also object to a non trans identifying man joining? And if you would, why?

I'm not claiming anything just voicing how I view these things and why they dont bother me 🤷‍♀️

Yes I would object to that.

Why?

Read all my previous posts!

Read all my previous posts!

Science disagrees. You are an entire living creature. Your body affects your brain, your moods, your emotions. Your life experiences are the expereinces of your body. It's not a meat sack that your brain pilots, it is you. Your "self" didn't exist without your body. Your "self" is created by living in your body. If you had had a different body, you would have become a different person.

I have read them. They don’t explain why you don’t mind a TiM joining but would object to another man. What is the difference?

I mean, that's fine and I appreciate your input. But it's pretty extreme to say that a man who thinks he is a woman is actually, really more like a woman than other men. So people are going to want to understand what you mean by that.