Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

[Krakinou]

This is a feminist forum. It’s in the name. I’m a feminist, therefore logically atheist and frankly anti-religion. Certainly against any kind of religious nationalism (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc.)

But surely feminism is about liberation for all women, not just the ones we agree with? The destruction of patriarchal structures, not of women and children who are conditioned by them?

I constantly see snarky comments in GC articles about Gaza and dehumanizing comments about Palestinians and Muslims generally on this board. And minimizing of the suffering of the tens of thousands of people being murdered in an internationally recognized genocide. I don’t get it. It seems out of sync with the general mumsnet feeling too - I get the impression most people on mumsnet are pretty horrified by Israel’s actions.

Does anyone else get the same impression? If so, what is the connection between being Gender Critical and being anti-Palestine? Is it just that the leftist terfs aren’t so represented here?

I’m in a feminist group in Spain and it doesn’t have the same issue at all.

The kibbutz that was attacked on October 7 (the name escapes me) was deliberately sited close to the border so it could carry out outreach work towards peace with nearby Gazans.

That's what Hamas thinks of that.

There is a sense that the possibility of a ceasefire and the release of the hostages has driven some to the edge. What would people then do with their Saturdays?

Suggestions on a postcard.

Continue protesting because they won't stop until the Jewish state is destroyed and Hamas or its next incarnation are back in charge.

What is a womp?

I'm slightly amused at Mia Khalifa condemning JKR. Even if MK is a sincere Arab nationalist, there are a few things to unpack there.

I'm not interested in slut shaming MK for becoming rich and famous from the porn industry - I have friends who've worked in that business and, whatever my feelings about the business, I would never hold it against them.

I am interested that MK achieved fame off the back of a viral porn clip that showed her having sex while wearing a hijab, for the titillation of white Americans who fetishise ethnic women.

MK, by the way, is not Muslim. She's a Lebanese Christian. Her demographic was enthusiastically massacring Palestinians in the 1980s. Since she was born in 1993, there's no way she's responsible for that. But it might be cause for introspection.

Basically I think MK gets to achieve respectability by her loud advocacy of the Omnicause, and by being embraced by lefty dudebros who are excited to find a porn star who advocates for the Current Thing. Politically virtuous wank fodder, ya gotta love it.

Yes, but then the actual hatred that motivates this movement will then be hard to deny.

It already is, but they do it anyway!

In answer to your other question, "womp womp" is a way of saying "diddums"; it's supposed to sound like the sad trombone. It was very cool and new in 2007 and has had something of a resurgence recently.

Oh & they don't call you all The Prosecco Storm Front for nothing, I mean staggering into threads legless blabbering 'men in dresses womp womp' is hardly sober analysis.

Yeah, I think Howie is insinuating that we're all drunk posting. Perhaps worth mentioning that we're not all on American time zones.

And Mia is such a feminist because she tweeted to the rapists of 7 Oct that they were filming their rapes wrong. Landscape, not portrait. And there are plenty right here on MN who will not condemn that or see it for what it is.

And there are plenty right here on MN who will not condemn that or see it for what it is.

Not here in FWR, I'm proud that we're all steadfastly pro-Israel.

We aren’t all steadfastly pro-Israel, I just don’t like to comment as I try to give people the benefit of the doubt on this board and views are so entrenched - I definitely don’t want to have my views misrepresented as some sort of support for Hamas or hatred of Israel.

I don't think we're "pro-Israel" so much as we don't treat one of the most complex areas of geopolitics as though it was picking a side to support in a football match.

Well, I am a 2nd wave rad fem and I am certain that marriage is for the protection of women and their children, though not only for that. I have always felt uncomforable with the idea that women should be equal to men (they are equal to men, anyway) in the way that some feminists suggest, which is that we should work and live our lives in the same way as men and be treated the same, as if we were exchangeable bits of machinery. The sexual revolution I lived through allowed women to be as irresponsible in their sex lives as men, and this has not increased the sum of human happiness but has removed women's ability to say 'no' to sex they do not want because 'why not, you won't get pregnant'. As for being in the workplace in the same way as men, this only benefits high flying professional women who have in the recent past, as feminists, called for removal of protections for women because those protections cause some professional women problems and such women are unable to see that those safeguards are necessary for women lower down the employment pile. I believe that to be truly equal women's biology, their making of the next generation with their bodies and their minds, has to be accommodated by society - which means discarding neo-liberal individualism - as do the caring responsibilities and unpaid labour women contribute to society and which is neither valued nor counted. Yes, men should take half that burden, but so far men taking even part of it has not revised society's view that the nurturing and unpaid work women mostly do is valueless, including becoming a mother (which for many feminists of my generation was an obstacle to women's development).
We also need to address men's greater propensity to violence and channel it in whatever ways we can. I am not fighting men, I am fighting an economic system that exploits most people and latterly treats humans as commodities and consumer units, whose input is worthless if it does not make a profit for someone.
I am also a Christian and there is much in Christianity - a religion whose founder was both funded by women and who took women seriously and treated them as equals - that supports women and their agency as people (many leaders in the early church were women e.g. Chloe who asks Paul to sort out the Christians in Corinth).

Feminism and atheism do not go together, any more than feminism and being a Democrat or feminism and being pro-Palestinian go together.

i think you are mixing American trad wives/home educating/Christians - specifically evangelical with those of whom post on here.

British women can be very gender critical but atheist and Pro Israel and also Pro Palestine, can be anything from Catholic to Orthodox and all in between like me and give a fuck about modern western problems like those - use your local beehive mind, don't assume every human on this planet reads and believe the trash posted on here.

your local beehive mind is where you live. Talk to your neighbours!!!!!

Oh give it a rest. You don't have to shit up every single thread with your inanity.

Well, I am a 2nd wave rad fem and I am certain that marriage is for the protection of women and their children, though not only for that. I have always felt uncomforable with the idea that women should be equal to men (they are equal to men, anyway) in the way that some feminists suggest, which is that we should work and live our lives in the same way as men and be treated the same, as if we were exchangeable bits of machinery. The sexual revolution I lived through allowed women to be as irresponsible in their sex lives as men, and this has not increased the sum of human happiness but has removed women's ability to say 'no' to sex they do not want because 'why not, you won't get pregnant'. As for being in the workplace in the same way as men, this only benefits high flying professional women who have in the recent past, as feminists, called for removal of protections for women because those protections cause some professional women problems and such women are unable to see that those safeguards are necessary for women lower down the employment pile. I believe that to be truly equal women's biology, their making of the next generation with their bodies and their minds, has to be accommodated by society - which means discarding neo-liberal individualism - as do the caring responsibilities and unpaid labour women contribute to society and which is neither valued nor counted. Yes, men should take half that burden, but so far men taking even part of it has not revised society's view that the nurturing and unpaid work women mostly do is valueless, including becoming a mother (which for many feminists of my generation was an obstacle to women's development).
We also need to address men's greater propensity to violence and channel it in whatever ways we can. I am not fighting men, I am fighting an economic system that exploits most people and latterly treats humans as commodities and consumer units, whose input is worthless if it does not make a profit for someone.
I am also a Christian and there is much in Christianity - a religion whose founder was both funded by women and who took women seriously and treated them as equals - that supports women and their agency as people (many leaders in the early church were women e.g. Chloe who asks Paul to sort out the Christians in Corinth).

So, no feminism, atheism and

”Do you even know what a discussion forum is for?”

Well this particular discussion forum is for WOMEN, and I was asking for WOMEN’S opinions. Which excludes you.

I'm a GC feminist, also a 2nd waver. Which is why I back Israel, I suppose. I did not always, indeed, fell for the Israel apartheid lie - but I have learned to look at the evidence and to sift propaganda and the recyling of the same photos/films etc from truth. So, Israel.

You aren't the boss of MN….

And btw I'm a CIS woman as in birthed two children. Are you even a mother given this is MUMSnet?

It’s been interesting and reassuring to see how many women here do have strong feelings against the genocide in Gaza. After reading through, my impression is that the loudest voices (and those that slip in the dehumanizing comments to unrelated threads) are the ones who see the situation in a very simplistic and racist way. I can understand why others stay away from the topic on here, since obviously it’s not the purpose of FWR and a complex topic to discuss online.

No you’re not. You’ve said before youre a man from Australia. Do please try to keep your stories straight. Try antibac more. Also well done im getting your Construction Industry Scheme card. Didn’t know they did that in Australia.

Nope, post the link to comment then…

No. Maybe if you’d have said please. But unfortunately you’re letting your male sense of entitlement show. Tut tut. I don’t respond to orders from men. Wasn’t it you who told another female poster to “fetch”? Yeah mate.

Thanks for confirming you were lying.