Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

[Krakinou]

This is a feminist forum. It’s in the name. I’m a feminist, therefore logically atheist and frankly anti-religion. Certainly against any kind of religious nationalism (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc.)

But surely feminism is about liberation for all women, not just the ones we agree with? The destruction of patriarchal structures, not of women and children who are conditioned by them?

I constantly see snarky comments in GC articles about Gaza and dehumanizing comments about Palestinians and Muslims generally on this board. And minimizing of the suffering of the tens of thousands of people being murdered in an internationally recognized genocide. I don’t get it. It seems out of sync with the general mumsnet feeling too - I get the impression most people on mumsnet are pretty horrified by Israel’s actions.

Does anyone else get the same impression? If so, what is the connection between being Gender Critical and being anti-Palestine? Is it just that the leftist terfs aren’t so represented here?

I’m in a feminist group in Spain and it doesn’t have the same issue at all.

The idea of anti-vax as right-coded in America is very recent. I think we can date it precisely.

I don't read that as the same as vaccine hesitancy, which US polling shows is strongest among (i) African-American men, and (ii) rural Republican men, who are both two groups with ingrained distrust of government.

But anti-vax has long been associated with the post-hippie left, and with Hollywood in particular, all these actors who endorse alternative remedies.

I sometimes do a thought experiment of what would have happened in 2020 if the Pfizer vaccine had been released three or four weeks earlier, just before the election rather than just after. Trump would probably have won the election, because it was very close in the key states and he could have claimed the credit for slashing red tape and getting the vaccine programme up and running.

But more interesting is that before the election you had elected Democrats like Kamala Harris expressing scepticism about a "Trump vaccine" - the same people who imposed vaccine mandates as soon as they got into power. Maybe I'm cynical, but I imagine the Democrat showbiz influencers - Jamie Lee Curtis, Julia Roberts etc - would have been all over the media telling us not to take the vaccine, and instead we could protect against Covid with pine kernels or something.

This is the problem with taking your politics as a bargain bundle - it saves you having to think too much, but it can be tricky if the fashion changes on any given issue.

The flip of the left to being granola, Dr Sears reading, vaccine skeptics, to being massively pro Big Pharma has been one of the weirder elements of the last few years.

@SionnachRuadh
Thanks for understanding me using vaccines as an example of where tribalism surplants free thought. I was sort of worried that someone might assume my stance and tell me why I was wrong. I chose it because it seemed to me it could so easily have fallen the other way. What then blows my mind is that people would have become just as fanatical about it, just they would hold the opposite view.
Your post expressed infinitely better than mine did how easily it could have gone the other way around. Thank you.

"Democrat showbiz influencers - Jamie Lee Curtis, Julia Roberts etc - would have been all over the media telling us not to take the vaccine, and instead we could protect against Covid with pine kernels or something."

Shuddering here imagining what Gwyneth Paltrow would have been telling women to do with the pine cones......

I've had a quick peek at your links. I don't have time right now to go through them properly sorry. I will read them fully later when I have more time thank you.

What you've posted ( after my quick skim ) does not support the accusations you made in the way you think they do in my opinion. I think you are seeing what you want to see.
Not liking Soros' social policies does not mean you believe

"in far right Great White Replacement theory in various forms claiming that transgenderism is a 'jewish billionaire plot to sterilise white girls' in order to accelerate 'browning' whiteness."

any more than you for instance thinking JKR is a showdy puppet master means you think therefore all ginger people are evil. I don't believe you think ginger people are evil, I'm saying it would require the same insane non sequiter leap of faith to jump from criticism of Soros to that conspiracy bit I quoted from you above.

You're a free person and you have every right to believe whatever you want, but I think you've gotten yourself into a mental place where everything you see is proof you're right if you look at it in a certain way. This isn't healthy for you, and it will hurt you more and more the longer you continue doing it. You will be a happier and less stressed person if you can start dismantling some of it.

Maybe familiarise yourself with right wing narratives about jewish billionaires that always involve George Soros in the mean time?

Actually, they ended up agreeing to a political solution because they were losing the belief that a military solution could ever succeed. They also lost the support of people in Northern Ireland.

I am not fond of the IRA, but they were and are people with a rational approach to violence as a means to a political end. They were not religious fanatics who thought being a martyr was the highest ambition someone could have or that Protestants were heretics who should be wiped out for the good of Catholic Christianity.

You’re making the classic mistake of assuming everyone thinks like you and that one political solution will work in another context. They don’t. And they won’t.

"Actually, they ended up agreeing to a political solution because they were losing the belief that a military solution could ever succeed."

Just like Hamas eh?

"They were not religious fanatics who thought being a martyr was the highest ambition someone could have or that Protestants were heretics who should be wiped out for the good of Catholic Christianity."

Um, classic Zionist talking points to evade what's self evidently a land dispute much? Careful, your Islamaphobia is showing…

If it were about being anti stuff, wouldn’t we also be anti Israeli, antisemitic, and anti vaccinations as well?

I think you’ll find rational people who weigh up evidence and their own experiences, come to hold a range of perfectly valid opinions.

One of the reasons I like it here is that we reflect such a wide range of views. We’d find plenty to argue about at the pub over a tunnocks.

Howse talks such a load of bollox. I mean, really? Why would anyone even consider read anything he says? It’s hogwash.

Last week he said that there was no evidence JKR had received death threats because Glinner hasn't had a verdict in his case yet (I am not making this up). Shortly afterwards, he admitted there were threats but said they didn't matter because she can afford security.

Obviously he knows he's talking rubbish, but that second post was way more enlightening than he realised. Some men, among them Boy George and Jolyon Foxkiller, really really do not like a self made woman with that kind of success.

Post the the link…🤡

He has a real issue with being able to separate fact from opinion, the links he posts are hilarious and typical of someone who is deeply entrenched in this insidious ideology. In a nutshell, if you say anything that is outside of his narrow view, that necessarily means that you are a vicious hateful bigot, and you therefore MUST support everything else that he’s been told is bad. It is such a childish and juvenile attitude to have, but again, it’s how this ideology survives, manipulating people into believing things that aren’t true.

It’s that teenage boy phase where they are convinced their parents are a bit past it, naive and behind the times, especially their mums.
When we disagree it’s because we ‘just don’t understand’, rather than because we’ve a wider experience of the world, decades of our own experiences behind us, and probably just know better frankly.

Anyway, it’s that. Hopefully he’s actually 15 and will get to know better himself in time.

Don't ever mention JKR's antisemitism in front of her simps…

https://x.com/esjesjesj/status/1975244633723879783

It’s cos his mum cutted his pear up wrong innit?

Sometimes I think this is the equivalent of when your 15yo DS tells you about this amazing band he's discovered called "Pink Floyd".

With pleasure. First post on the page with my settings, you at 30/09, 13.55. Unroll the quote history for the crap about Glinner.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5419031-jk-on-emma-watson?page=38

Definitely this, 😂 or when they tell you about this great new song they’ve heard, and you tell them it’s a remix of a song from when you were young, they look at you like you were never young!

How dare you insult me like that. As if I'd ever drink prosecco.

Repeating your mad posts with some added emphasis isn't actually a rebuttal of their madness, but it's a change of scene from DOG WHISTLE and randomly posting irrelevant links from Wikipedia. By this point, we're just counting it as a win when you change the record a bit.

How would he know which of his parents is his mum?

He just demonstrates how much hatred he has for women whom he can’t control, he has a total disregard for the personal safety of a woman because she’s wealthy, and the implication is that if she didn’t state biological facts that gives men like him hurty feelz she wouldn’t get the threats in the first place.

It’s the one who washes his socks and empties the bin Full of tissues.

Exactly, right-wingers don’t drink Prosecco, he doesn’t know anything!

😂😂