Sturgeon accuses JK of toxic trans debate

[Tootsweets23]

The world has probably had enough of sturgeon to last a lifetime but today’s ‘revelation’ from her shite book is just infuriating.

A long catalogue of poor me, I’m pure of spirit, any criticism is toxic, everyone else is malevolent.

Despite calling people who don’t agree with her idiotic bill racists, homophobes and misogynists, here she says JK’s teeshirt didn’t elevate the debate or illuminate the issues.

And then goes on to say that this issue wasn’t really that important to mainstream voters but we are all guilty of hysteria.

And she wishes she had the courage to call a rapist female.

For someone allegedly politically astute this book is a very stupid strategy. Slow hand clap.

Nicola Sturgeon accuses JK Rowling of creating ‘toxic’ trans debate

https://www.thetimes.com/article/29160158-03f7-4afc-bce6-38a425c72df0?shareToken=3cf893fc3e26d2e2b4ced9467395d1d5

Discounted already! I'm taking that as a sign of slow sales. I covered this display copy with the more aptly titled volume in the other photo.

Ah, I see what happened - somebody else called VoulezVous took up the line Gofaster had apologised for, and a couple of posters doubted the sincerity of Gofaster's apology.
That extended it for a bit, but mostly in response to VoulezVous.

I still say thank you for Gofaster's apology, which I still take at face value and I always salute posters who say - sorry I got that wrong/got a bit snippy/lost the head/etc.
because it's not very common in online debate.

The discussion seems to have got back to the crux of the argument - is it hateful and horrible to call out NS for her actions in government and her words in her book, and does it have to be done in a polite manner?

Its fairly common for a launch tbf.

She launched two days early though, which I think suggests pre-orders were lower than expected and shes really hammering in the interviews.

More claims from the book disputed. Did she not think people who were involved and unlike AS still alive, would not read her memoir and speak up?
https://www.thetimes.com/article/d7f5d9b3-845e-40a5-b350-c60f80560969?shareToken=5ae5003982facbc5301afd10a61a3dae

She’s farting out one of the regular Omnicause talking points, I’m surprised she hasn’t thrown in “Free, Free Palestine!!!” during her many interviews too so everyone knows she one of the righteous…

I am vaguely reminded of the sketch (from the 80s) in Ben Eltons "Man from Auntie" where Mrs Thatchers dogmatism was illustrated by her running up a down escalator insisting that it was "going the wrong way"

Possibly portrayed by Steve Nallon, which adds a whole extra dimension of deliciousness in the fact it's what popped into mind.

I am also reminded of a fairly recent clip from the US where a losing candidate was guffing that although the other side "gotten more votes" that didn't mean they should have won because "everybody agrees with me".

I love a good apology ❤️ Obviously typed conversations lack the nuance of face to face. Can't hear tone of voice or see facial expressions. So phrases you may think are very milquetoast can hit wrong. It's happened to me. I don't have a problem if you didn't like JKRs shirt. You're entirely entitled to your opinion.

I think our side is stronger for diversity of opinion.

I'm not just cute, I'm a fucking Saint 😇

I said nothing like this at all. In my comment, I was making a comparison of the different treatment of three groups: Sturgeon, GoFaster, and posters that have different opinions to the majority. I was not giving a socio-political opinion on Sturgeon herself apart from what I’d read in this thread, and that was a thorough personal savaging. I recognise JKR is your heroine and anyone she opposes, you must also oppose, like drones, though.

Reddit discussion of Sturgeon's denial of Bryson's womanhood.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1mo4y1a/sturgeon_rapists_probably_forfeit_right_to_choose/

Can I do a little edit here? This bothers me:

Either “Women who want to chide women for criticising politicians” or “people who want to chide people for criticising politicians”.
The way you have written it places the emphasis on ‘women’ - intentionally, I know - but it sounds exclusive.

And as per previous post, I don’t really care about Sturgeon per se. I do think criticism should be political and not personal, though. I have the confidence of my own mind and opinions and simply because, say, Influential Person A believes something, doesn’t mean I should. I see that too often here.

Ask the people who keep bringing up Isola Bryson if they can name any other trans prisoners who were convicted of sex offences other than doing sex work.
They can't. So until proven otherwise, I am going to suggest that she is the only one, and therefore trans women are the demographic least likely to do this sort of thing.

I guess this is what true belief looks like.

Off the top of my head I can't but a quick google wouldn't take long.
That butcher guy who abducted and sexually abused a schoolgirl for a start.

I'm wondering if the redditor's point is we have to learn the names so we can recall them on demand? Because if we are allowed to look things up there's literally hundreds of them. I mean even the home office's own figures show that the rate of sex offenses among male prisoners claimning to be women is higher than men prisoners.

Thank you to the posters who have appreciated my apology. I can hardly insult jkr for something while doing something effectively similar and I get why it would get people's backs up. Like I say, I genuinely have reflected on that. I am happy to insult myself too and say I was a dick in my initial comment because I was. I took a cheap shot while accusing her of taking a cheap shot which is not cool. I've held my hands up repeatedly so I'm not sure what else I can do. Probably let it go is the answer! I hope the fact that I am returning to explain myself lets you know that I am genuinely not trying to be offensive or rude and I thank everyone who has seen that.

When one of self ID’s biggest supporters is suggesting that it’s a privilege that can be taken away as a punishment for “bad” trans people, it seems that maybe she never believed in it after all.

A bit like when you are so passionate about Scottish Independence you are thinking of moving to London, to get some peace from Scots?

I had a little read of that, it’s very much a mixed bag of it’s an extra punishment for trans individuals and some sensible folk saying you shouldn’t lock up attackers with their preferred victims.

Should there be a differentiation between those who discover they are trans after being accused of sexual crimes type stuff. The “at it” gender I assume. I wonder what the flag will look like.

Probably the answer is to have trans wings in prisons. Congruent with sex of course.

Since there is obfuscation at best, and a downright refusal as standard, how the fuck are we to know any other names?

Added to which Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria seems to be A Thing...

With the added advantage of paying less tax if no longer resident in Scotland

That Reddit thread is wild. Even the people who are trying to be relatively sensible still have to show pronoun respect to convicted rapists.

Yeah just move on from it. If anyone still wants to give you flak over it just let the flak slide. Back and forthing just keeps it going on life support.

This forum sees a lot of bad faith interlopers who like to make a dramatic entrace, castigate everyone from the moral highground, then flounce off all excited having stuck it to the TERFs. It does makes us sensitive to certain methods and patterns they always use. You did match one of the patterns initially. I don't believe you are one of these, I think you are here in good faith.

I am curious if you'd care to have a crack at this question please?
What did you think of Elaine Miller's merkin protest in Holyrood?

Oh I don't know about this! I will look it up and have a think and get back to you.

And Im getting a more in depth understanding of why my post prompted certain reactions.

Given Sturgeon has engaged in an anti-LGB anti-women hate campaign for a decade, calling anyone who believes in women's and LGB rights "far right" then I think she deserves everything she gets (verbally or in writing, obvs not physical violence).

Dear Nicola did her best to destroy womens rights. I dont need JKR to tell me that @VoulezVouz but since it's the truth why would I, or any woman with sense, disagree with her?

If you think she is some sort of saint then, politely, you need to see a doctor as there is something wrong with you.

You do have to laugh (bitterly) at the response to pages and pages of posters giving specific examples of how Sturgeon has done her level best to destroy women's rights and why women are so angry at her attempt to handwave all those examples away being 'well you only dislike her because JKR said so!!'

It's just fuckwittery at its finest.

Anyone who is unsure about why a nation of women are furious about all this really needs to read 'The Women Who Wouldn't Wheesht'. Many, many contributers (including JKR) stating in unflinching detail about how we Scottish women have been betrayed by our Government.

But I'm sure the fuckwittarians will still sycophantically laugh at the (mildly amusing) clicky pen/hold the door shite while ignoring male sex offenders in male prisons and the like. And then have the gall to say shit like 'have the confidence of my own mind and opinions and simply because, say, Influential Person A believes something, doesn’t mean I should. I see that too often here.'

Continuing.to.never.stop.rolling.my.eyes

I think the next thing for the bingo card is probably going to be something along the lines of "you only think that because of JKRowling".

Which is amusing given the history.