NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

No! Someone else suggested that might happen once SP finishes but I was rather disbelieving!

Just popping this here again 🤣

Not having a proper written policy? No staff consultation or EqIA? ED not advising SP on proper complaint process? Left DU vulnerable to challenge because staff weren’t briefed by managers? Which has led to national & International coverage and impact on future career/privacy? It’s a stretch but still…

Think Upton would be out of time for any employment tribunal of his own. If not the BMA might well support him to bring a case believing that Fife would roll over and settle.

Edit - also think it would be very unwise as if they decided not to just sette there would be more about potentially fabricating evidence.

You know the way Gregg Wallace is trying to blame the BBC for his own vile behaviour? I can see Upton doing that. Narcs gonna narc...

He was always going to paint himself as the victim over and over and over. Although to be fair I’d say he’s unemployable now.

I’ve just caught up with some of the news articles - can’t believe that person mithering about how brave DU was and how Sandie’s daughter would be unhappy about how Sandie was handling it.

The point she makes about being trans not being a choice - I can agree as far as having gender dysphoria is not a choice, but transitioning surely is a choice and to then use opposite sex changing rooms (especially so early in transition when there would be absolutely no chance of “passing”) is DEFINITELY a choice.

I'm not saying it would be reasonable option for sensible people but he will have a HUGE grievance about being referred to as a man throughout this ET. It will have him literally shaking and will have caused, in his mind, endless harm.

I'm no lawyer but due process is supposed to protect both parties. As we know DU, from our perspective and the evidence so far, is the guilty party but NHSF presumed he was the victim. They more than encouraged him, they pushed him to take it further and so they victimised SP and made him vulnerable to ET.

He could argue he was not just badly advised he was also victimised by their failure to consider that he might become a respondent of an ET. If they'd told him there was that risk he could argue he wouldn't have pursued the matter. Or some such.

The law is very arguable which is why it is SOOO interesting.

Would the timeframe be an issue if the complaint is that they made him vulnerable to this ET? Would he not have to get it in three months after this?

The problem for DrU is his professional misconduct allegations. It’s abundantly clear he did not give proper access to his phone which would undermine any claim he made.

I'm making dill pickles at the moment, will that do?

Is Upton still practising? And is he still using the wrong changing room? Surely his position would be pretty much unbearable if not untenable now?

Tell me more of these delicious sounding dill pickles please?

This exactly.

I hated my developing body. Still not thrilled about boobs, hips and butt now at 52. I was ashamed of periods. I developed a large chest early and all of a sudden was grabbed by lech men (my Year 5 teacher grabbed my boobs and asked me if i wanted to sit on top of him... my creepy uncle grabbed my arse at Christmas when I was 11 and said i was getting curves in all the right places etc etc etc) and all I wanted was to ride my horses and go to gymkhanas not worrying about bleeding through my jodhpurs or how my new strange body felt.

If I could have identified out of it I would have in a heartbeat. I used to strap my breasts down with a horse exercise bandage as my mother would not let me get a bra. I used to shove a pair of socks down my knickers and pretend I was a boy. I nevr ever wanted DCs and i never wanted to get married. I would have taken every bit or=f surgery or meds offered to remove all of that from my life.

So I totally understand how many young women feel. Puberty is a total shit of a thing. But like everyone, of course I got through puberty, found my way. I'm a heterosexual married woman with 2 wonderful children and looking at things from the horrors of what is happening now I feel so grateful that options of 'trans' or 'puberty blockers' and 'of course you are really a boy, dear' was not around in my day.

Oh yes. I love pickles and ferments. My baby cucumbers didn't do very well this year otherwise I'd be on it too.

One jar of spears, two jars of round slices for sandwiches and burgers. I grow the cucumbers in the veg plot, and they are denser and less watery than the cucumbers from the shop so make particularly good pickles.

I simmer 1 cup of white vinegar with 2 cups of water, a tablespoon of salt and a dash of sugar for about 10 minutes.
I pack sterilised jars tightly with the sliced cucumber in whatever style we fancy. Then I chuck in whatever we have in - dill seeds or fresh dill, mustard seeds, dried chillies, maybe a few garlic cloves. I pour the pickling liquor on top and seal straight away. It takes a couple of weeks to properly mature.

I make enough to do us for the year. Burgers, tuna bagels, pastrami sandwiches, with cheese slices and chutneys for a ploughman's, we go through quite a lot of them.They also work well in homemade tartar sauce.

They sound amazing!

His own employer’s enquiry found he hadn’t been harassed, even on the basis of his own possibly fabricated evidence. I’m not seen an argument that he’s a victim of anyone here.

I predicted we'd be on thread 45 come Monday morning and I was hoping to win a prize. So come on ladies. Only 908 posts to go.
I have enough recipes to last me a while but I'd like to know if anyone keeps carnivorous plants.
I have a Venus flytrap that I've managed to keep alive for almost a year now but she's always been a bit floppy, like she's permanently having a lie down.
Any tips would be most welcome.

I actually think Upton would have a case against NHSFife, but on the grounds that they misinformed him from the start. If they'd told him not to use the women's changing rooms because it was against the law none of this would have happened. Their poor advice led to all that followed.
To add I have no sympathy for Upton but it's a fact that he was wrongly advised and no-one apart from Sandie stood up to him.

I cannot think of a basis that Uppity could have a valid application to an ET.

In other kitchen news, if I may, I have mostly been trying to develop a decent mini-brew of proper beer on the hob . I already make the parsnip stout on the hob, but that's isn't a 'proper' beer as such, which requires 'mashing' (holding at a temp of around 65 deg C). So I normally make beer in an old Burco boiler. But being able to do a small batch on the hob could be a game-changer! Plus, I realise, there will come a time in the not too distant future when manhandling buckets with 15 litres (and hence 15 kg) of boiling liquid in them could lead to a nasty accident. Maintaining temp wasn't as hard as I expected, and all accomplished easily in an afternoon. Hopeful I can get this to work well.

Then join the fan club for the Japanese Ambassador 🇯🇵😍, who's just visited a jam factory. TW: includes scones with marmalade.

Been reading all the news articles which are pretty scathing about Fife and I was wondering whether the JUDGE and panel are reading them ( and what they think about them and whether they might affect their judgement? )

I stand to be corrected, but in fact Upton said I will use the ladies as I have been doing already, in an email to Searle I think.

He wasn’t waiting for permission, he was told don’t have a policy. He didn’t particularly care if he had express permission because he would have started campaigning to get access if anyone stood in his way. He suggested to Isla Bumba he wrote their trans policy. So you know - he was hell bent on getting his penis out in the ladies changing room. NHS Fife didn’t invite him to do so - but after the fact Isla Bumbler said I don’t see why not…