NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

From a link to a Redditor above, apparently Borwick’s writing style is “unusually glib” and it’s been commented on in other court cases, however he’s the best phone analyst in Scotland. (Screenshot below when it passes muster…)

@KnottyAuty Dr U is bringing his own ET? Against whom? On what grounds?

<mind boggles>

@Lolichi Could I have one of the free trials please 🙂

Who was it who wanted the fig and orange jam recipe?

I’ve not made this particular one but I’ve made several out of this book (Kylee Newton’s Modern Preserver) and they’ve all been really good:

I posted this about 3 threads ago but we were right in the thick of it then.
When I have done internal investigations in a public sector role, one of the other areas that you are supposed to look at is any organisational learning.
so for example in this case the fact of lack of EIA, policy around trans members of staff etc would have been raised as part of the investigation .

it appears NHS Fife HR have standard templates for HR related issues. Does anyone know if this is part of the role of the investigator.

tbh if it was me and I was the HR advisor I would have been tempted to record that the business keep ignoring HR advice.
bet it is glowing red on their risk register now 🤣

Bugger! That's the one with my "medicine" in!

I'll get the butler to go get it! I'm assuming Polly has a butler.

There's a trans identified child in my extended family. I rarely talk to those closer about the situation because it's upsetting and I love everyone involved, have no wish to fall out.

But I once asked the grandmother whether she could see any connection with older, heterosexual men coming out as trans in mid-life, despite wives, kids, etc and teenage girls suddenly declaring they are boys.
I could see the cognitive dissonance on her face as she tried to rationalise it, but in the end she said yes, they are the same. She knew she was lying. I didn't push further.
Having a trans child in the family creates a sacred caste. All trans people must be believed, because it they aren't then maybe the trans child might be wrong too.

They followed this child's lead on puberty blockers when they were 12, which I think is an unforgivable burden to lay on a child. I asked Gmother what she herself thought of PBs and she started crying, but said child knew best. I left it there.

Sure - you’ll need to DM your email address.

And with whose money? He certainly couldn’t afford it on his own.

They followed this child's lead on puberty blockers when they were 12, which I think is an unforgivable burden to lay on a child. I asked Gmother what she herself thought of PBs and she started crying, but said child knew best. I left it there.

The first chapter in the book Terf Island addresses this very point: they are children and children do not have the maturity to know what will be best in the longer term.

Thinking back to your own pre and early teen years - how many of us were gauche and totally awkward then, but we grew out of it and became comfortable with ourselves?

It is unforgivable the way children have been used and manipulated. This individual case but also a whole generation given false belief that biological sex can be changed. The medical profession are responsible for such disservice and harm.

"it goes without saying"

he seemed to be in a hurry! You dont want to be without your herbal remedies!

Christ, when I think back to my periods starting - I absolutely hated them. The change to adulthood, the hassle of sanpro (I just wanted to carry on playing in fields and building dens!). And that was before the periods themselves.

I was determined to have surgery to remove everything because a) I thought that was available on demand, b) I had no idea of the side effects, c) I thought it would allow me to just grow up but without periods and d) I had no thoughts about whether I’d want children in the future (I didn’t in the end but I’d have removed that choice).

I thank my lucky fucking stars that “being trans” just wasn’t a a thing then because I can very easily envisage a 12 year old me going down that route.

He won’t have a case to appeal this ET but he can probably sue NHSF for not following due process. I mean if they’d applied any due process it would have been halted well before he added patient safety after the fact to his ‘contemporaneous’ notes. I suspect he was encouraged to by KS, perhaps indirectly. But if he has a taste for the professional victim I think he will very much have an appetite for it. Remember he has no capacity for guilt or shame.

I don’t see he has a claim against NHSF for a process which he initiated and in which he participated. How was he harmed?

I would need to go back and read it again but I think he didn’t create the notes at all when they were supposed to have been. He created them much later after all this had kicked off and ‘someone’ said - is that all you have? Just the CR incident. That’s not enough to get her suspended. Surely she’ll have been rude to you previously. So then he created these notes and tried to fake the dates very ineptly. So they appeared to have been edited before they were actually created apparently which is not possible.

Just chiming in to agree that Michael Foran's Substack is great, and well worth the £5 a month. His analysis is really engaging, it has helped me to understand things about the case that would have otherwise have gone over my head.

The likes of Dr U and his fellow TIMs may have more success in taking out a class action against Stonewall for misleading businesses and public institutions in the laws of our lands.

Can I just pop onto this thread (which is bound to be full by tomorrow) to thank whoever it was for the warm spiced cauliflower, chickpeas and pomegranate salad (Nigella) which made for a tasty lunch and made some space in the fridge and freezer (pressure cooked chickpeas freeze well).

Back to Friday's witnesses: Do we know why the need to search Upton's phone suddenly became so "urgent" that it couldn't be done in person? They've had months between February and July!

Since all the clinical staff seemed to be so hopeless at conducting their own email searches I had wondered whether both experts might have been quizzed at how simple it would have been to do this centrally. I suppose we already had "we could have done it this way but we chose the 6th worst option" for the phone and that is probably enough.

I’m a grandmother myself. This would have filled me with despair.

Did someone on the previous thread really post a link to making clotted cream with Smeg?🤢 I'd prefer to use actual dairy myself but........

To be clear the child in my family is not a RODG teenage female. Sorry if I have given that impression. He was the more typical young boy (3) presentation that has long been recognised. More likely gay, then a family trauma caused psychic injury.
I put the ROGD/AGP scenario to her (not using those terms) because I wanted to see if there was a chink in the family's adherence to gender ideology.

It's there but painful to acknowledge. I mean, to do so might force one question what harm has been done by rigid conformity to the faith.

I hope your relatives come to their senses, @unwashedanddazed - I am watching similar stories unfold and I worry about it.

I'm seeing James Brown now.

We need to start a secret thread to co-ordinate our stories about @CriticalCondition . We must fabricate the evidence for some terrible violations of MN policy to get her banned permanently. It is clearly unsafe to have her anywhere near a keyboard.

Bloody hell, I go out for the morning (checking on sloes for gin if you must know) and come back to find out @prh47bridge is building a ducking stool.

I know he was only joking but the idea of a secret thread made me shiver.

Poor Sandie.