NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

Again, I’m not thinking this from any sort of rational position and your points come into the territory of rational. But the gender cult is far from rational, including the lawyers.

He wouldn’t be re-litigating the internal disciplinary either - this would be new and based on the harassment and victimisation that he might claim is a result of the ET.

Even if not accepted by the ET governance process he will find a lot of joy in fundraising for it
and being claimed as a victim/ hero for TRA cult.

As far as I can see, the decision didn't go anywhere near HR. It appears to have been made by Isla Bumba, their DEI lead, who is young and inexperienced, and appears to be a TRA (or at least, sympathetic to the TRA cause).

Something that will never stop amazing me is how all these medical professionals, Consultant doctors and senior nurses are so desperate to follow the party line, or perhaps to reinforce that there's simply no way of knowing that DU is male, that they make complete idiots of themselves, claiming they don't know what sex they are, or only know because that's what it says on their birth certificate and other nonsense.

Why can't they simply state they don't discriminate, everyone is entitled to identify as they please and they respect that, but yes there are two sexes.
Charlotte Myles managed to walk the tightrope and give a sensible answer. Is she going to be disciplined for that? I highly doubt it. I think it added to overall respect for most of her evidence.

It's just bonkers and everyone knows they are lying as well as being idiots.

"NC: A previous witness IB said she didn't know if she was male or female, but would guess F. I am going to say that you are sure you are female?
CM: Yes
NC: XX chromosomes
CM: Assume so!
NC: You're not offended by that?
CM: No not personally, it's a scientific Q. And I know about physiologoy and anatomy.
NC: And humans come in two sexes
CM: Yes indeed, but, pople have every right to identify however they like.
NC: But in a medical context, sex is important and easily determined
CM: Well yes if scientific consideration."

I really want to be his apprentice now. Heh.

Thank you for that. I would imagine his email being included in the bundle might be sufficient in the wider context.

Does anyone know what page number it is in the bundle. Foran has pointed out that a number above 700 means it is part of the second submission.

If not included in the first, which I am inclined to think it wasn’t because they were in full denial about a first investigation, then NC might have been unaware of it. She seems to be very focussed on her selection of new witnesses doing very particular things and questioning JB would feel, at this stage, like going over old territory and the panel might have little patience for that.

But at the point when HR were trying to advise that there were alternatives to suspension, nobody in HR seems to have queried whether Dr U really did have a right to use the women's changing room.

I'm in Scotland and trying to think back to how things were back in late 2023 - found this https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24813000.grassroot-feminists-groups-call-sturgeon-clarify-comments/
We really are so lucky that things have started to change for the better.

The odd thing is that it doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone at NHS Fife that this was a 'contentious issue' and that they would face push back.

Even if they believed they were right, they needed to make sure that the investigation was above reproach.

I thought Stonewall were now in financial difficulty now that they no longer have US funding. Unbelievable that organisation like that has to rely upon a foreign government for financial support. It makes you wonder what the motivation was behind it.

The US funding was project specific, so not relevant to their general running costs.

The unions regard "transphobia" as a breach of their policies. They won't support staff where they believe they have breached the policy. They do the same on eg racism.

Loving the preserving recipes in between the detailed analysis. I have been inspired to make jam from my glut of raspberries with some frozen elderflowers. Cucumber picked next...

Shelf stable for a good 9 months to a year

I was referring to the HR advice email saying as usual we recommend against suspending (staff members under investigation) but they ignore us.

I am remembering the day sturgeon resigned from the SNP and announcing it to my mum who started doing a happy dance around the living room floor. She has been loathed by our family long before the gender shite and wee harvie for even longer (went to school with him - total prick)

Been lurking and following since last week. Thanks to all who have provided such helpful insights
I’m not sure if this got shared on an earlier thread: it shows DU’s original notes from 18/12 and the updated version from Boxing Day
🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Trans doctor altered notes after changing room row, tribunal told

https://www.thetimes.com/article/acee2324-aa12-453f-8fa1-6320d2446500?shareToken=2e565db7d5393c22efe78cc262ee42d7

Finally caught up after reading far too late at night every night and ignoring the book I’d been especially saving to take away on holiday. Totally get the pp (Gymnopedie?) who missed their stop and even forgot they were on a train. Thank you Nauti, TT and everyone who has made this possible.

But when I was a rep at a large manufacturing facility, any union member who was allegedly racist still received advice and support from a union rep because they were a member.

We even had one particular rep whose role was to represent the racists so as to avoid a conflict of interest,

Am desperately trying to catch up ahead of tomorrow. Have spent too much money on books reading these threads!

Just wanted to say for the Nancy Mitford fans, if you haven’t seen it there’s a fantastic drama series about the Mitford sisters on U.tv called Outrageous. I’d highly recommend it. (You can download the U app and you have to sign it but it’s free)

I like my cucumber pickles a little sweeter so it's 1kg sliced cucumber sprinkled with salt and left to stand a couple of hours (or more) before being rinsed.
Pickling liquid is 300ml white wine vinegar, 125g sugar and some mustard seed bought up to the boil then add cucumber and simmer 8-10 mins until they change colour before bottling in sterile jars.
Only needs to go in the fridge once open and I have kept a couple of years with no problem.
Hoping I might get enough small green tomatoes to pickle some this year in a similar way.

more criticism of the nhs fife board from the scottish public services ombudsman : https://www.spso.org.uk/decision-reports/2025/july/decision-report-202209316-202209316

Finally catching up, after skipping whole threads then jumping backwards and forwards to get the key points. Appreciate the breadth and depth of commemtary on here.
I still maintain that DU knows full well that he's a man. It's the ONLY reason he would have told anyone that he'd be using the F CR. No woman ever does that! NHSF could easily (and should) have told the nurses that a trans member of staff would be joining the staff, without mentioning any names. But they just didn't think it through, did they?

Arrogance pure and simple. Senior managers decided what they wanted the result to be. In their view, they were in charge, the rules were what they wanted them to be.

I have a DB like this. He cannot accept that anything is other than the way he wants it to be because he is always right.

He's definitely experiencing job satisfaction via the medium of sugar. He likes Tunnock"s Tea cakes as well so I can't knock him.

Had a busy weekend so only just checking in. Are we on cucumber now?