NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #44

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 26 July 2025

Let me guess.....Irn Bru is orange, and so is a code word for Donald Trump?

'if you'd have listened to my answer'

She's a right snarky cow. Can easily see her being the ward gossip shit stirrer

who is LN? I'm getting all my witnesses mixed up. who spoke to who when they shouldn't have?

Just in regard to your first paragraph, you seem
really naive. Personally I worked in a senior role in a bigoted team and they turned on me cause I didn’t share those views! So I’m not saying I agree with those views, just that people that hold them within public sector isn’t uncommon at all.

from herald
1:37pm
Important to note that Sandie Peggie is no longer in the room overhearing the evidence.
This is because she has been recalled and may be required to give evidence.

This has just been published by the Courier, who’ve been looking at the Benidorm messages. Not good -
In the discussion, seen by The Courier, Person 2 writes: “Sandie is p*g me off!!!
“She’s been texting [redacted] over the past two days asking for a picture of the weirdo!!!
“I thought she meant me!! So sent a picture of me dressed in Queen of Hearts costume.
“She text back saying ‘no the picture of that weirdo Beth’ you showed me the other night!!
“I think it might have been [redacted] or another [redacted] in A&E. What a fny she really is. I’m no chuffed.”
Person 1 responds: “She is a f**ny. It’s folk like Sandie that cause wars.”
Person 2 then says they are “really hacked off” with Ms Peggie and that they “feel like reporting it”.

They add: “And I feel the whole atmosphere must be really toxic that people are laughing behind the lassie’s back!”
Person 1 then says that they would be willing to provide a statement about Ms Peggie’s character if asked.
They add: “She should be struck
Later in the chain, the two colleagues discuss whether to take their concerns about Ms Peggie to “official sources”, including HR and Dr Upton’s legal team.
Person 1 writes: “I was thinking of going to more official sources and letting them know she ain’t all she appears to be.
“I’m just really fing annoyed.”
Person 2 confirms they have removed themselves from the group chat that includes Ms Peggie.
They said: “I’ve taken myself out the Benidorm chat cos I’m just no happy, I really feel upset (angry emoji) that I could have been duped by someone that behaves like that.
“She’s just fing relentless in her nastiness.
“I get that Beth may not look exactly like a woman but it’s no the f*ing point!!!
“She does not deserve the hate campaign that is obviously being waged not only by Sandie but other staff as well!”

NC leaves it at Irn Bru+ham s/wich and goes on to Xmas eve incident.

NC When were u 1st asked about Xmas eve incident? Not what was said
LN When I had my 1st mtg w AW
NC When was that?
LN Suggest it was 1.5-2 months ago. I'd need to check my emails
NC May or June this yr?
LN I think so
NC So all this time ago
LN Yes
LN U asked what happened in the CR but I wasnt a witness
NC Yes, u said [reads out]. So nothing remotely memorable happened as far as u knew
LN Yes
NC [asking re timing when entered CR]
LN Yes, was when finished shift
NC Who was in CR?
LN I remmber as was Xmas eve and talk in dept re an incident NC Who was discussing? LN I cant remember but ppl are going to talk NC What did u hear LN Incident between DU and SP. Just that there's been an incident between them. That was all I heard NC U cant remember the exact time

I imagine that there are very many more Muslim staff in NHS Fife than there are trans-identifying staff.

So what does it say about NHSF that they allowed such an apparently egregious alleged comment about a mosque to go unchallenged, whilst hounding Sandie for her comments about a man in a women's changing room?

We've got all the hospital gossips on the stand now.

From TT

NC In a considerable hrray. (hurry?)
LN I was told not to talk to witnesses
NC [describing corners of room] I want to suggest u knew u shldnt speak to her
LN I wasnt in the room.
NC Were u talking to her to make sure y'd briefed her on what you said?
LN She asked for a ham sandwich and Irn Bru

Add a ten deck ay B&H and ye've got a Fife Picnic

NC When were u 1st asked about Xmas eve incident? Not what was said
LN When I had my 1st mtg w AW
NC When was that?
LN Suggest it was 1.5-2 months ago. I'd need to check my emails
NC May or June this yr?
LN I think so
NC So all this time ago
LN Yes
LN U asked what happened in the CR but I wasnt a witness
NC Yes, u said [reads out]. So nothing remotely memorable happened as far as u knew
LN Yes
NC [asking re timing when entered CR]
LN Yes, was when finished shift
NC Who was in
CR? LN I remmber as was Xmas eve and talk in dept re an incident
NC Who was discussing?
LN I cant remember but ppl are going to talk
NC What did u hear
LN Incident between DU and SP. Just that there's been an incident between them. That was all I heard
NC U cant remember the exact time you finished
LN No. As I finish at different times
NC U cant remember if others already in the room?
(LN) Correct
NC U cant remember what ppl were earing when u left or when SP joined, or about DU. About DU going to the toilet and when
LN It's not something u remmeber. I was just

Confused, did NC first speak to Fiona about talking with Lindsay during the lunch break and has now started cross-examining Lindsay?

Yes, comes across as gobby and arrogant.

The new evidence doesn't look good as a reflection of Sandie's character but it does make clear that others knew Upton didn't look like a woman.

FW speaking to LN while under oath 'about sandwiches' at lunchtime is astonishing and I hope it makes at least one headline.

I think LN has to be fitted in for availability reasons.

Why am I naive? I probably am, but genuinely interested in why you think that.

I'm really sorry you had that experience in a prior role, and I do agree that there are racists in all sectors.

I was just pointing out that racism, particularly in a medical setting can and does lead to higher mortality rates.

That just seems like Monday morning quarterbacking to me.. and kinda bitchy and gossipy!!

This is still Fiona isn't it.

NC Not a criticism but not much u remember
LN I dont remember.
NC Can u remeber where SP standing
LN For some reason SP got changed behind a closed toilet door even before DU started. DU usually changes at the same spot. I'm not mistaken

But even so, wouldn’t JR go first? Why would NC start with a witness for the respondent, she would cross examine surely?

I really don't see how all this omnicause argument helps Fife. Quite apart from it being mostly hearsay, it's simply not relevant. Racists have just as much right to single sex spaces as everyone else. And if someone has unpleasant views on one topic it's not an indication of their stance on all 9 protected characteristics.

I'm sure there are gay racists; there are religions that are so homophobic they want to trans all gay people; there are minority ethnic and religious groups with enormous levels of sexism; I'm sure if you looked you could find some ableist vegans ....

The omnicause is a lie - perhaps especially for those 'against' it.

This doesn't look good at all for sandie.

But surely these can't be the 2 new witnesses NC is calling in. These are saying they were going to support Upton...

@Jacopo agree not good calling Beth a "weirdo" on record. Reasonable wanting a photo for the case though as Beth is clearly biological male and that's relevant to her case.

I think NHS Fife should have some basic trans understanding training (not the TRA). Most public organisations do these days.

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45

‘Her pants’

Wow. I spent 20 years front line NHS but never heard racism from colleagues