NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

It's about PR. Conjure up a potential ground of appeal, that at least is not completely ridiculous, put on a performance about how you could appeal, then say that after careful consideration, and bearing in mind the costs and the ever-present duty for the NHS to spend money prudently, say that an appeal won't be going ahead. But we could have you know ...

I wish NC would remind witnesses that SP was having a menstrual bleed and that the alleged confrontation was when she was attempting to clean up.

As nauticant has declined your kind offer and in the spirit of her reply I suggest donations to Sex Matters to allow them to continue their work would be appropriate.

NC - any comparable email to SP, why change of ix, progress or why ED not involved

AH - would have expected it, from ED or GM

NC - sure JR will take you to it if it exists.

Oh I think we might be building up to something; that's a classic NC turn of phrase.

Agree. And there is no Beth Upton/male equivalent.

@NebulousDog ED was a new manager. Someone more senior should have realised and never asked her to i/x.

Yes while usually dressed as a poor stripper on crack!

It really winds me up that she had to tell anyone about that. She should be allowed privacy whether bleeding or not.

Judge sounds fed up with the amount of energy arguing of pronouns drains from the sane and nice who have no ill intent.

I hope this doesn't get lost so i'm copying it again:
NC - your email to SRainer and MJorganson, say you spoke to GM that SP had escalated concerns about F CR, ED didn't escalate, GM looking at who to pick up.
SP raising concerns about DrU in CR with what should have been an appropriate person.

from herald
3:50pm
We are hearing about the request for Dr Kate Searle to sit in on the interview between Angela Glancey and Dr Beth Upton.
Ms Hamilton told the tribunal it was "less than ideal" that Dr Searle was present during the junior medic's interview given she was also giving evidence.
But she said that policy allows this to occur.
Ms Cunningham asks if it is a "departure of normal practice" to cater to Dr Upton.
Ms Hamilton disagrees.
3:41pm
We are hearing Ms Cunningham quiz Ms Hamilton on the change to investigator.
Angela Glancey took over the investigation after it was determined Esther Davidson could not because of her previous role in the case.
Ms Hamilton said it should have been obvious from the start that Esther Davidson could not be the investigator in this case - but she said she was not initially involved.

What policy?

Just thinking re. Pete. There's a large no. of women using the changing room. They weren't asked or warned that a tw would also be using it. I suspect word got round but some may have come back from AL/sickness and possibly walked in on him. In gawd knows what state of undress. Or he could have walked in on them in a state of undress. He'd have been in scrubs or semi-naked with his receding hair tied back. I wonder how many thought, at least briefly, he was just a bloke? I can't believe they weren't warned a tw was starting even if it wasn't explicitly stated he'd be using the f cr.

Perhaps Pete the plumber is a doctor, works in urology.

It’s impossible to know. I mean I can’t believe they didn’t throw in the towel after FWS so I have no ability to judge the full extent of their appetite for punishment.

Do you think everyone saw what a ginormous shitstorm was heading their way and booked loads of leave en masse?! 😆 Not me guv, I was on me hols!

These dates Naomi is going through... NHS Fife should be ashamed of themselves.

NC: "I'm sure JR will take you to it...........if it exists" Haha!

Nauticant has also mentioned supporting other cases. I think the Public servant sued for saying sex is binary case is pretty vital especially as JR and Naomi will both appear.

NC - started till april due to leave and annual leave. is that an adequate excuse for not starting on an incident at Xmas eve
AH - planning had to be started again because ix manager changed
NC - reason given was leave
AH - was a lot of leave -

you said it, AH!

Reason for delays - not just change of manager, a lot of leave - I expect NC will also suggest that it was because they were trawling for things to make SP look bad.

But NC moves on to changes to DrU's statements, and an apparent effort to hide the fact that he had made changes.

They’re true believers remember, they’re on the right side of history, and eventually we will all be burned at the stake for the heretics that we are.

AHH the problem is telling the nurses Dr U was trans would be outting, where as them getting an eyeful of his meat and two veggies would leave them non the wiser that the 'woman' who walks like a man, talks like a man and looks like a man is in fact a man.

Sandie Peggie tribunal a battle against ‘smug management’, says JK Rowling

https://www.thetimes.com/article/2f75b2de-134a-4e94-868a-dff6a5d9f2a5?shareToken=8a7701b74160d92d786007e241595dc6

Bam JR and your annoying interruptions

Any observers struggling to hear the witness? I've given up as I can barely understand a word she's saying