NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

Re the infamous raspberry scrubs, I know it sounds funny cos "I'm a lady" - but to be fair, this appears to be a standard term in NHS uniform colours and what "junior staff" wore at Fife.

https://www.interweavetextiles.com/the-uk-guide-to-hospital-scrubs/

From previous thread:

DisforDarkChocolate · Today 13:11
Could the McLoude (lets just assume SIC) have rolled her back to all in the 1995 scheme?

The McCloud rollback option affects only the pension from April 2015 to March 2022. Everything after that is in the 2015.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead In response to your comment on the previous thread, I agree that managers often think that employees won’t be able to afford to bring a case. I brought a disability discrimination case and was told that I would be very foolish to do so. Threatened by HR and patronisingly told that i wouldn’t be able to afford to live when I went on to half pay and then zero pay. I also had to deal with “missing” emails and correspondence, and just blatant, outrageous lies. Shut them up by letting slip that I’d just sold my late parents’ house in an expensive part of the country. I shouldn’t have had to do that, but it gave me the upper hand. I won my case after two years of hell.

I notice in this article the photo of Upton is soft and slightly out of focus, emphasising his feminine side.

Nope, not working, still looks like a bloke to me.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5295788/nhs-fife-sandie-peggie-tribunal-investigator/

And yet we get this bollocks about "transphobia". No one says that women hate men if we don't want men (of the common or garden kind) in our changing rooms. It's not a microagression if we go in a toilet, find a (normal) man there and leave again.

Women need the right to say "no" to men of any flavour. Why do some people have such difficulty understanding this?

I believe that the women of Mumsnet got the BBC to change their editorial line. 👏

Bravo.

A further step in the right direction.

Almost two decades ago I got so seduced by all the amiable chicken-keeper chat on MN that I became temporarily besotted with the idea of getting some hens myself.
I pored over images of Omlet chicken runs like they were porn. I planned everything out in my head. I was on the cusp of taking action. Then I woke up from my obsession. It deserted me completely and I thought 'WTF woman! That was a narrow escape!'
I'm glad I woke up, bcs a friend at work who used to keep them told me they stank a bit. I imagined a kind of sulphurous smell like you get from boiled eggs, because I had a cockatiel who often went into over-laying mode and her poos became almightily sulphurous, like Satan himself.

Good evening, Nest of Vipers

What week it's been in Dundee and there's still tomorrow to come. I wasn't able to watch today or tomorrow but am following along on TT and on here.

I want to thank everyone for the support and what I understand is referred to as 'gardening'. It really helps us to be able to send our volunteers to tribunals - we have had remote access but also have had someone there in person every day. We have mixed 'in the room' with remote access and because of the concerns from NHS Fife & Dr U about our bias and errors, we have had someone reporting and someone just observing.

My personal opinion - today did not improve the Rs likelihood of success. Not a dramatic day but the pattern of organisational behaviour has been increasingly apparent. The unequal treatment meted out to the two employees is stark.

Tribunals do not set out to referee the workplace argument - Big Sond will not tell us in the judgment 'yes, a woman or not a woman'. Tribunals attempt to answer specific questions; was the employee treated in accordance with the policies of the organisation, fairly and (possibly) are the policies themselves appropriate.

Roll on Friday.

It is so disgusting that if SP didn’t get serious financial backing none of this would have been heard. That she would probably have just been suspended then found guilty and sacked. Just as many other women have probably quietly been in the past. I am not confident that many people will see this and understand but I really hope they do.

Bet he wrung its neck.
or bashed it with a cricket bat.

They keep referring to the Risk Assessment. Has anyone in the court ever seen it?

As someone else has noted amazing breadth of knowledge here. Few words I would like to look up but can't easily find so plse point me to. XXX non-Newtonian and Fifer response to 2 chromosomes, 46 actually except???

I thought that was ridiculous.
min the last 2 days JR has muck raked at every opportunity and found only hearsay. Where’s the apology for that?!

@Justabaker I dont do X so just wondering can you tell what an average audience is for your tweets and how many views are there on your website? Also pretty please if you could add to the summary page day 1 witness,,,,it would really help my return visits.

@Justabakercan you explain who "we" is? I haven't read all the posts and so not sure which organisation you're from?

If you mean before suspension - not to my knowledge. I believe a checklist may have identified as one.

To which she could have replied 'I'll try a reminder, but I went into bat for you this pre-trial and lost. The judge is very unlikely to change his mind and pushing too hard again decision he has already made is not likely to go well'

There was absolutely no need to go all repent witch wot no apology? When NC didn't back down over something that was agreed months ago. It like the ix finding Sandie didn't do anything wrong but still needs reprogramming reflection. There is no space to say I don't subscribe to you opinion. It's agree or the floggings will continue.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/war-over-pronouns-breaks-out-at-sandie-peggie-v-dr-beth-upton-trans-changing-room-tribunal-5240720

Sexing guineapigs is easier - turn them upside-down and gently but firmly squeeze their fat tummies and, if it's a boy Guineapig, a tiny matchstick of a willy will pop out. Hours of childhood fun.

I just want to say how appreciated all your efforts are. Sandie has been a warrior but without TT making this accessible and accurate without colour or bias has allowed so many people to see this for what it is for themselves without the “bias free” reporting of BBC in particular. Open justice at its very best. I’m hugely grateful. You are all warriors in your own right. I honestly don’t know anything else would have been as effective in throwing light on this nonsense.

I reckon it’s in the new additional bundle and they created it on Friday just prior to their infamous press release 😂

We’re so grateful for your service. I’ve signed up - but also would like to see a donate button option. People may not want to subscribe but in a fit of generosity might want to garden 🪴 for a moment. Please consider.

Thanks to you and the team for providing light & oxygen.

@BoeotianNightmare Tribunal tweets

They do smell especially if it's wet, I suppose if you only have 2 or 3 and constantly clean their coop and poo pick the run or garden area if free ranging on a daily basis then it wouldn't be an issue, but seriously who has time for that. Then you have the yearly flockdown for bird flu when they're confined 4/5 months of the year, DEFRA want you to buy boot dip and basically treat it like you're a farm with foot and mouth (shout out to the fife emails there) its really not an easy hobby and quite frankly I don't know why the hell I still have them but here we are