NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

I think another thing, in terms of public interest, is that almost all of us rely on the NHS and we're also very aware that currently the NHS isn't working very well. As an institution it's not exactly riding high in public opinion.

I've spent most of my adult life working in the public sector, and I've got a large fund of stories about things that happen there, but this display from Sunshine Desserts NHS Fife has shocked even me. I can only imagine how normies would react to a consultant doctor saying "don't ask me how you identify the sex of babies, I'm not an expert."

Sorry, it was somewhere on X. But that story has been around for a long time, not the first time I’ve seen it.

I do remember watching something about a chicken sexer. Just next to a big grinder. But yet...

That relates to the Darlington nurses not this case.

I have somehow ended up seeing chicken keeping groups on my Facebook feed and I've gone from thinking 'oh, it would be quite nice to keep chickens' to now knowing waaaay too much about lash eggs and other things.

Been busy all day. What did the IT expert say?!

SP is attending everyday in a range of colourful jackets and matching handbags. She has family/friends and from the photos they look to be bringing either a packed lunch or a copy of the bundle.

No sign of DrU.

Tell teksquad I'll be there tomorrow.

I think it's also because it's been easy to get every single witness to slip up and call him he. As soon as one person does it, everyone else does, because it takes a conscious effort to use she.

Bit difficult to call this harassment when they're all doing it. And at the same time demonstrating that they all know he's a man.

God, I love these threads. Apart from honing my ear for a Fife accent I've learnt a shed load about chicken sexing and I've got courgettes gently pickling in the fridge.

The original 'No Thank You" Hubbard video that went viral.

Given that JR has two clients, it could be that she has been given instructions by one of them to attempt to minimise the misgendering (perhaps some of the support crew are in one of the overflow rooms or observing remotely).

Alternatively, short of exclaiming “oh look; a squirrel with a can of Red Bull!” I’m not sure she had many other ways of interrupting the flow of questioning.

Long time lurker here.
Just popping in to say I’ve worked as a days old chicken sexer. It’s decently paid hard work and I wasn’t very good. Better at ducks and geese but not good enough to keep the job!

No, I know about that, but today this was referring to Upton. I’d not normally quote something said in passing on social media, not unless it came from a reputable source. Apologies!

😱

Definitely HR and TU reps but anyone who has experience e.g. being an investigator in disciplinary and grievances.

Yes I think a lot of people see keeping a few chickens in the back garden through the lens of The Good Life. In reality it's learning how to become a chicken vet, deal with respiratory issues, sour crop, bumblefoot, scaly leg mites, the dreaded red mite infestations, egg bound hens and the rest. Even introducing new hens into a flock is a logistical nightmare as the old ones will attack the new ones and any blood drawing will result in the whole flock attacking the one that's bleeding. They are mini raptors at the end of the day and can be just as vicious

Interestinly before the fox batterer went completely nuts I used to chat chickens with him on twitter. Remember he had an injured one once and was too tight to go to the vets, I told him the very least he should do was spray it with purple spray but should really seek medical advice. Tight fisted rich bloke.

Become unable to sex humans including yourself and you could get a lead role at NHS Fife. If you can't tell your arse from your elbow either then a truly glittering career awaits you.

OMG safe with me! 😱

I had a week caring for a nearby neighbour’s chickens a few years back; to say I turned up “suited and booted” (okay maybe jeans, wellies and a thick fleece) is an understatement. I am confident they would have pecked me to death if I’d tripped.

Yes, an insect bite on your leg they'll eat the whole bloody leg. Little t Rexes. Quite something to see how they react to blood.

Just googled lash eggs. Ewww. Interestingly at some point in the future it may no longer be necessary to have chicken sexers, as they may be able to do some clever gene editing to make sure that all the offspring are female
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-59505112

I started keeping chickens 20 odd years ago as an ex partner thought it would help with my ornithophobia. I didn't help, I'm still terrified of the little buggers but somehow still have them because despite how evil they are to one another they do have amusing little characters. I've lost count of the number of injured ones we've had in the house and nursed back to health, from day old chicks pecked half to death with a broken leg to fox attacked survivors who have lived another few years with only the use of one leg. They can be quite resilient or drop dead for no apparent reason in front of your eyes. There's never a dull day keeping chickens

Just had sight of staff emails from a nearby trust saying 'nothing has yet changed' re changing rooms following supreme court guidance - waiting for ehrc document blah blah blah. Not sure news of Scottish tribunal has made it down here... but just to show it is not just Scotland.