NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

Oh no, @ickky, will it be Moss & Roy?

So the NHSF IT guy but not the phone IT guy? When is he coming back?

Yeah, she’s only the woman who has been cancelled and kept off work for months. Keep clear of her, it might be catching!

Why do you think that? I don't recall (sorry) anyone mentioning it.

Nearly at the station

Only if he simultaneously identifies as both.

What’s in the bundle?

the missing RA ?

But surely nothing that the vulnerable DU says is a LIE?? How very dare you suggest such a thing! He had to be walked to his car, walked to his car I tell you, because he was so upset he lost the use of his legs. Have you no compassion?!

I think the judge noticed the lack of symmetry - informing DU via KS 'because it was the compassionate way to do it' - though why a change in ix manager is all that sensitive I don't know - but SP? who? oh yeah her - well somebody else probably contacted her, not my job guv so I don't know.

from herald
4:21pm
Cross-examination is done.
In Jane Russell's re-examination, she asks Ms Hamilton whether she believed there had been any lies told regarding the patient safety claims.
No she said. There was simply no evidence to support them.
That's us done for the day.
We have Peter Donaldson, an Information Security Manager up tomorrow and Dr Maggie Currer, a consultant in emergency medicine. We also have Jim Borthwick from KJB Computer Forensics Consultancy.

Posted this earlier but court was in full flow so added again now people have time to read. The Queen speaks….Sandie Peggie tribunal a battle against ‘smug management’, says JK Rowling

https://www.thetimes.com/article/2f75b2de-134a-4e94-868a-dff6a5d9f2a5?shareToken=e436b58398bdfcda31b6a5b641b27081

I'd LOVE to see Moss being asked to use she/her pronouns. There's no way he could do it; he's too logical.

Not sure this is quite as beneficial for JR as she would have liked. "Not lies" means she is saying that without any independent evidence she believed one person over another. But of course hers was an independent investigation.

Isn't Jim Borwick, the IT forensic expert, the phone guy?

Basic principles of witness management would dictate a witness can’t be the “friend” whether in the policy or not.

Will MC have learnt anything from the KS bin fire, or will she double down tomorrow? Thoughts?

Yes apparently. A witness the other day was asked 'what if Pete then declared he's a woman?'
The answer was that it wouldn't be accepted and would be a disciplinary matter.

Completely forgetting that according to their laws, trans people are whom they say they are. And they don't have to make any changes to their appearance.

Naomi said there is no legal or material difference between Pete and Upton. But witnesses continue to say Upton has the right, but Pete does not.
Upton is a laydee. Pete is a pervert

Yes, he is.

So did I. HR clearly knew there was a problem.

But the use of the term 'insufficient evidence' like NHSF did in their final report on the charges against SP, is based on the assumption that something did happen, but we just haven't been able to prove it
The 'Not proven'.= verdict in action?

There is 'insufficient evidence' that the Fairies of Sliabh Luachra visited my garden last night and danced under the moonlight to the music of a fairy piper, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.

Unless of course you don't believe in fairies😱in which case - it never happened, right?

SP was only guilty of professional misconduct if she was already racist, homophobic and transphobic. If you don't believe that - it never happened, right?

I wouldn't say "lie" but you would expect the other person in a room with Sandie and Dr. Upton to have noticed if Sandie completely ignored him.

That this woman noticed nothing awry is evidence not perhaps of a lie, but that Dr. Upton was prone to mistake feelings for reality or magnify issues beyond proportion.

It casts doubt on his evidence where there was no witness i.e. the changing room.

So is Borwick independent and the other IT guy is, er, not?

I put it together from:
End of session 22 July: On unfinished Dr Searle examination, Judge says, "Can u return at 11am tomorrow so u dont have a long wait? We'll do well to complete SK before lunch."
KS didn't go 'live' until after lunch. It was a closed hearing in the morning; viewers on edge of seats waiting for the host to let us in.
My brain made a completely unfounded assumption that the morning session might have been forensic IT (someone called KS?) whose evidence might be sensitive.

I now think that SK is actually a KS mis-type (no shade to TT - they're doing amazing work!), and have absolutely no idea why that session was private. Does anyone else know?

In panto?

Do we perhaps now feel that the insistence on supervision on SP return to work was an opportunity to spy on her and seek other instances that might demonstrate a pattern to make DU claims stand up?

I wouldn’t put it passed them at this point.