NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #41

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38
Thread 39: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378747-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-39
Thread 40: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378996-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-40

So theres nothing in policy that says you can't attend an interview with a colleague who's also a witness. Well the policy clearly needs changing.

It's all just so bizarre.

They're not allowed to talk to each other about the case, but can go into meetings together. I don't get it.

NC - there was a lot the Trib hasn't been told about
AH - no
NC - reason board determined to punish SP was that she was guilty of what board thought an unforgivable heresy, won't pretend DU was a woman
AH - sorry
NC - board wanted to punish b'cos unforgivable heresy

They aren't qq, are they?? but love repetition of 'heresy'!

Have they no WD40 for that squeaky door?

You don't get it because you are intelligent, rational and use the thing in your head called a brain.

HTH

Q re this morning.

TT's summary.of AG's evidence talks about the 26 September incident. Is that one of the patient care ones? And if so, the resus or the missing patient?

Is NC toying with JR at this stage?

NC - nothing more.
I thought that sounded like a barnstorming way to end the day!

Panel asking qq

She's rubbing JRs nose in it with the heresy comments. All perfectly within the scope of the case too I might add.

JRs had a bad day imo.

NHS Fife have used all the WD40 in Scotland on a squeaky wheel.

Absolutely she does and did deserve privacy no matter what. However Fife are trying to push the incorrect channels defence (even though we know they wouldn’t have supported her view in any formal escalation) and ignoring the fact that this was an incredibly difficult and embarrassing situation for Sandie to find herself in the CR with Upton when she needed privacy to get changed.

Judge asking good questions again.

J - if keen DU was informed, were you keen SP was also informed.
[about change of ix manager]
AH -i expected that to be done by the service

So the jist of it is to have bare bones policies that include very little. So you can basically do what you want, because iit won't be going against policy.

Just one step up from having no policy at all I guess.

from Herald
4:06pm
Ms Cunningham asks whether it was appropriate that Ms Glancey met with Dr Upton "in private" to discuss what changes needed to be made to the interview transcript.
She asks if it looks "completely unfair".
Ms Hamilton said it was "less than ideal" but she said it may have been done to "expedite the process".
Would Ms Glancey have offered the same to Ms Peggie?
Yes, she said, if Ms Peggie had asked for that.
Ms Hamilton said she did not believe there was a "deliberate" attempt to create a misleading paper trail.

from Herald
4:11pm
Ms Cunningham asks if there was a "storm" going on behind the scenes about whether to include patient safety incidents. There were fears the allegations could harm Dr Upton if untrue, she said.
Ms Hamilton disagreed.

'Assume'

Never assume.

NC seems to me to be really clear that DU made those supporting accusations up. I wonder what the results will be if the panel find that DU did make malicious allegations.

And with total disregard for the law either way, it seems.

Nursing & medical shift starts and finishes are usually staggered, so the chances of a nurse being in the changing room at the same time as a doctor are not that high. Upton was getting ready to go home but Sandie was in the changing room during her shift to deal with her specific problem. Not that this justifies Upton's presence there in any way.

AH - i think by email
J - why KS [why DrU informed via KS]
AH - compassionate way to tell
J - that came from MJ
AH 0 in MSF's absence
J - anything about C being told?
AH - no
J - when was she told
AH - can't recall

Especially not where this lot are concerned.

A change in career hopefully.

Upton would be great on stage.

I'm not sure he'd cope with the stress, without his Emotional Support Kate there to hold his hand.

JR facilitating AH to say that she expected someone else to have notified SP.

As she well knows.