NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #39

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence will be 28 July and then there will be 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing will end on 30 July.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.
Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #29 can be found in the header of thread #30.

Thread 30: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375337-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-30
Thread 31: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5375819-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-31
Thread 32: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376072-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-32
Thread 33: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5376608-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-33
Thread 34: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377387-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-34
Thread 35: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5377598-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-35
Thread 36 mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378031-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-36
Thread 37: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378200-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-37
Thread 38: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5378463-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-38

Oh nose.

@Appalonia no, the judge is saying arguments about the law have not yet been made.

It’s a subtle difference. The SC ruling is new so there is no case law so NC and JR will in closing submissions argue what the SC judgement means.

Pete merch coming soon

She said, she said popping up again!

KS just keeps on digging her hole

Interesting that KS used the word "inference" not "implication" that SP compared DU to Isla Bryson. She did indeed infer it; it was not implicit in what SP said.

Oh this is odd. Searle has just said 'she said, she said'

I've never heard this expression before until Bumba mentioned it.

Would this suggest Searle knows about bumbas testimony?

KS admitted that she added the reference to 'rapist' in prison
KS - what's offensive is the inference, which is why it was important to mention in a hate incident
NC - it's important on datix to be specific and accurate, report what was said and done, not interpretation, agree

Wait are we ok about the judge and the FU is a man thing? Did someone make a legal argument as to why that’s not a terrible thing?

So, do we have here a sexed-up dossier? Those often go badly in the end.

We need a shocked emoji

It doesn't look good for KS here

NC - not better to add what DU reported to you which gives impression rapist was mentioned
KS - I thought i was being fair

I feel NC has recovered lost ground.

Last week JR said that the FWS case was only about board representation and didn't apply to changing rooms/toilets

I assumed She said/she said was used to discuss DU and SP to carefully avoid it appearing as if they are referring to DU as a he.

Hmm. It seems KS sexed up the Datix.

@GreenFriedTomato I missed that, but it does seem suspicious.

I had to sex-up the dossier because Dr Upton was so upset and was in front of me!

Do you think somebody has had the sense to arrange for some sort of counsellor to let her “decompress” after giving evidence? It is all very public and the Fife circles in which she moves are probably not that huge.

I’ve probably used the wrong words, but there are A LOT of people who have read that email.

From a legal point of view, Australia is worse than here. See Tickle v Giggle.

It was agreed from the start that NC and her witnesses could use male pronouns for Upton, mainly so they could articulate the problem without being gagged by Newspeak. Why is that suddenly an issue now?

Yes but he said/she said is the phrase usually used when discussing people regardless of wether it involves 2 males or 2 females.

I've never heard he said/he said or she said/she said, ever

I would hope so.

I had someone to talk to before and after an ET via my employers Employee Assistance Programme

KS doubles down

Crybullying